for A Watcher's Son 3, Past and Future2/18/2006 c9 
8Harry2
Well, a you came to the end of this part of the story. And I must agree, this does sound like the beginnings of the new council. Question is, how well will it operate, and can it avoid the problems of the past?
8Harry2Well, a you came to the end of this part of the story. And I must agree, this does sound like the beginnings of the new council. Question is, how well will it operate, and can it avoid the problems of the past?
2/18/2006 c8 Lamarquise
Erm...this isn't making much sense to me. I don't expect any response; just see what you think.
I can't see why either branch of the Watchers would absolutely HAVE to be destroyed. Refocused, perhaps, but not destroyed.
Giles is asking Joe to do more than he himself ever did or showed any willingness to do. The First pretty much took care of the Slayer Watchers for him, and Giles didn't really need their infrastructure to operate anyway. As long as he is vital to Buffy, they'd be really stupid to interfere with either him or her. And they were never successful in interfering anyway. And Giles family history has nothing to do with whether it would be any less difficult for Joe to betray the people and organization he's given most of his life to.
Immortal Watchers are a different thing entirely. They have a whole network, and Joe couldn't take them down without loosing a bunch of Hunters on the world and destroying a lot of good friends (even if they can be stupid at times). Joe needs that network to be effective anyway-what use would he or any Immortal Watchers be in any fight if they aren't recording and reporting in? They could lose some bureaucracy and put some wiser people in charge, but their basic rules of secrecy and non-interference are all that's keeping a whole lot of people who know Immortals and how to kill them from 1.) taking things into their own hands when they're scared or mad or 2.) letting the rest of humanity in on the secret and unleashing what would probably develop into total civil upheaval.
You see, there was a sense to the madness of Joe's trial. Sure, he never did anything deliberately to hurt anyone and he had to weigh the harm he was doing with the harm he prevented at times by breaking his Oath. But there is a principle in the Oath. The only reason there were Hunters and Galati and the deaths of people like Don Salzer was because Watchers broke their Oath. And they were right. Lots of Watchers do end up dead when Immortals find out about them.
Overall, the Watchers (collectively) were not so bad a group. They pretty much stayed out of things unless there was a specific and deadly threat to their people. Many, like Joe, were probably more sympathetic than was strictly allowable. They did purge their ranks when they got bad apples. Most of any abuses of power were perpetrated by a couple of individuals and they were stopped and stripped of power in the organization pretty quickly. And in any large organization, you will get a few bad apples. There's no way around it. If Giles and the others deliberately try to take the Immortal Watchers down, they will destabilize everything. They will break the loyalty that ties Watchers into the organization and keeps them from doing a lot of evil things. They will destroy the power structures that keep the Watchers in line. They will destroy the basis of a lot of people's lives, and those people will either support a new movement or turn on it. It could set off a chain reaction that would continue for hundreds of years. Very few revolutions work very well or are worth what they cost. Particularly when the majority of the people involved aren't demanding a revolution in the first place.
Sorry...but I just want you to think about this. Thanks!
Erm...this isn't making much sense to me. I don't expect any response; just see what you think.
I can't see why either branch of the Watchers would absolutely HAVE to be destroyed. Refocused, perhaps, but not destroyed.
Giles is asking Joe to do more than he himself ever did or showed any willingness to do. The First pretty much took care of the Slayer Watchers for him, and Giles didn't really need their infrastructure to operate anyway. As long as he is vital to Buffy, they'd be really stupid to interfere with either him or her. And they were never successful in interfering anyway. And Giles family history has nothing to do with whether it would be any less difficult for Joe to betray the people and organization he's given most of his life to.
Immortal Watchers are a different thing entirely. They have a whole network, and Joe couldn't take them down without loosing a bunch of Hunters on the world and destroying a lot of good friends (even if they can be stupid at times). Joe needs that network to be effective anyway-what use would he or any Immortal Watchers be in any fight if they aren't recording and reporting in? They could lose some bureaucracy and put some wiser people in charge, but their basic rules of secrecy and non-interference are all that's keeping a whole lot of people who know Immortals and how to kill them from 1.) taking things into their own hands when they're scared or mad or 2.) letting the rest of humanity in on the secret and unleashing what would probably develop into total civil upheaval.
You see, there was a sense to the madness of Joe's trial. Sure, he never did anything deliberately to hurt anyone and he had to weigh the harm he was doing with the harm he prevented at times by breaking his Oath. But there is a principle in the Oath. The only reason there were Hunters and Galati and the deaths of people like Don Salzer was because Watchers broke their Oath. And they were right. Lots of Watchers do end up dead when Immortals find out about them.
Overall, the Watchers (collectively) were not so bad a group. They pretty much stayed out of things unless there was a specific and deadly threat to their people. Many, like Joe, were probably more sympathetic than was strictly allowable. They did purge their ranks when they got bad apples. Most of any abuses of power were perpetrated by a couple of individuals and they were stopped and stripped of power in the organization pretty quickly. And in any large organization, you will get a few bad apples. There's no way around it. If Giles and the others deliberately try to take the Immortal Watchers down, they will destabilize everything. They will break the loyalty that ties Watchers into the organization and keeps them from doing a lot of evil things. They will destroy the power structures that keep the Watchers in line. They will destroy the basis of a lot of people's lives, and those people will either support a new movement or turn on it. It could set off a chain reaction that would continue for hundreds of years. Very few revolutions work very well or are worth what they cost. Particularly when the majority of the people involved aren't demanding a revolution in the first place.
Sorry...but I just want you to think about this. Thanks!
2/16/2006 c8 Harry2
Talk about coming full circle! I think that Blair's life is about to get a lot more complicated.
Talk about coming full circle! I think that Blair's life is about to get a lot more complicated.
2/14/2006 c7 Harry2
I have to admit, what Giles and Adam said about the watchers made sense. And loosing the Library of Alexandera: I KNOW how that feels! As a lover of books and information, I can understand that!
But taking out the immortal watchers council from the inside? That will be a very daunting task. And I can hardly wait to hear Buffy and Adam, along with Joe, exchanging war stories. NOW THAT, should be interesting!
I have to admit, what Giles and Adam said about the watchers made sense. And loosing the Library of Alexandera: I KNOW how that feels! As a lover of books and information, I can understand that!
But taking out the immortal watchers council from the inside? That will be a very daunting task. And I can hardly wait to hear Buffy and Adam, along with Joe, exchanging war stories. NOW THAT, should be interesting!
2/12/2006 c6 Harry2
I have to agree with Giles This IS going to be a long one! But you do bring up some interesting points. Where did the two councils split? When? And over what? I would love to read the answers to these, and I suspect that Adam might know some of the answers. And, as far as the "Game" is concerned, see the Wandererverse story Calling out the Clan for the answer to that!
I have to agree with Giles This IS going to be a long one! But you do bring up some interesting points. Where did the two councils split? When? And over what? I would love to read the answers to these, and I suspect that Adam might know some of the answers. And, as far as the "Game" is concerned, see the Wandererverse story Calling out the Clan for the answer to that!
2/9/2006 c5 Harry2
*Chuckles* Its not often that Joe Dawson ends up having to take a shot of something other than beer. I think that associating with this group is either going to drive Joe to drink, the nuthouse, or to becoming a proud associate of theirs.
*Chuckles* Its not often that Joe Dawson ends up having to take a shot of something other than beer. I think that associating with this group is either going to drive Joe to drink, the nuthouse, or to becoming a proud associate of theirs.
2/7/2006 c4 Harry2
I never thought that Methos would actually feel comfortable being himself, but it seems that Adam is becoming comfortable! Even if he does get banged around a bit by Buffy in training, he does add a wealth of knowledge that can and will come in handy in the future. I mean, a man who is several thousand years old SHOULD have some insight into things that can be of major help in different areas.
I never thought that Methos would actually feel comfortable being himself, but it seems that Adam is becoming comfortable! Even if he does get banged around a bit by Buffy in training, he does add a wealth of knowledge that can and will come in handy in the future. I mean, a man who is several thousand years old SHOULD have some insight into things that can be of major help in different areas.
2/4/2006 c3 Harry2
Adam feels SAFE here? METHOS feels SAFE? Well, if the world's oldest Immortal feels that he can be a regular guy, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now. But if it comes to a sword fight, NO ONE messes with METHOS!
Adam feels SAFE here? METHOS feels SAFE? Well, if the world's oldest Immortal feels that he can be a regular guy, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now. But if it comes to a sword fight, NO ONE messes with METHOS!
2/2/2006 c2 Harry2
Giles has figured it out. The others haven't but Rupert has. Adam Pierson IS METHOS! *RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!* If one values ones life, DO NOT cross this man! To do so is to risk certain torture and destruction!
Giles has figured it out. The others haven't but Rupert has. Adam Pierson IS METHOS! *RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!* If one values ones life, DO NOT cross this man! To do so is to risk certain torture and destruction!
1/31/2006 c1 Lamarquise
Cool! Methos gets to join the party!
Cool! Methos gets to join the party!
1/31/2006 c1 Harry2
*Jaw hits floor* OMG! You went and did it. You brought HIM into the story! The worlds oldest immortal, and you brought HIM into this story! OH MOMMA, everyone is going to be having fits once the figure out WHO he is. I mean METHOS is no one to mess with, although he is very good at research, his specialty IS the Methos chronicles.
*Jaw hits floor* OMG! You went and did it. You brought HIM into the story! The worlds oldest immortal, and you brought HIM into this story! OH MOMMA, everyone is going to be having fits once the figure out WHO he is. I mean METHOS is no one to mess with, although he is very good at research, his specialty IS the Methos chronicles.
1/30/2006 c1 hilarydilarydoc
Yeah! Add Highlander to the mix! Why do I get the feeling once the confrontation is over that Xander and Adam are going to get along famously and drive the rest of the scoobies (especially Giles) insane? Love this series so far and it looks like its just getting interesting.
Yeah! Add Highlander to the mix! Why do I get the feeling once the confrontation is over that Xander and Adam are going to get along famously and drive the rest of the scoobies (especially Giles) insane? Love this series so far and it looks like its just getting interesting.