for A Crucial Decision2/18 c10 Guest
Very beautiful! I love the whole thing!
Very beautiful! I love the whole thing!
12/6/2012 c10 
2Estel-Mi-Olor
Wow, I knew I would not be disappointed. By the way, I am studiously ignoring your PMs until I post this last review.
There is so much to say, and so many details to be discussed, reviewed, understood, and discussed again. This is such a fantastic story. As a whole, it is beyond impressive with the amount of research you conducted to make the story come to life. But let me not suggest this is merely a well-written research paper, but an actual story, with a gripping plot, and complexly unforgettable characters. I love how detailed it is, and how even if I wanted to, I can't just sit down and reread the whole thing in an afternoon. It demands my attention and engages my thoughts. *Love it!*
About this chapter specifically:
I hadn't fully appreciate the flashback until this chapter. I mean, I knew in the back of my mind that the whole story was a flashback, but obviously the reader knows things that Elrond and Glorfindel could not have been told. So thank you for mentioning that. We will never know exactly what Círdan told them and what he left out, I guess. I mean, perhaps upon a very careful reread we could piece it together, but I like it better this way.
I like how you explicitly stated (actually I think this was an Elrond thought) that the relationship between Ulmo and Círdan is like that of father and son. It's always nice to get a pat on the back for a guess well made ; ) I like how child-like Círdan had to be in this chapter, and how Elrond had to come to accept that this father figure for the half-elf could also be child-like. I think it was beautiful to have this chapter and final dialogue written from Elrond's perspective, rather than Círdan's. It serves a book-end to the first chapter, in which we see an outsider's glimpse of the Shipwright, before we actually read Círdan's inner thoughts, and then once again, the tale closes with the outsider's perceptions. So interesting, so very interesting to learn about the complexities of a personality, and to have that personality be accepted by one who loves the subject in question so deeply, as Elrond loves Círdan as a father. Especially when Elrond observes that Círdan is "fragile." That was beautiful.
"Why Elrond and Glorfindel, of all people, would be privy to such personal information about the Shipwright is beyond my knowledge"
No, it's not. You know, and you told us in this chapter. You stated how of Círdan, Elrond, and Glorfindel, each had made a decision which made him unique among elves, and a decision which the other two could not comprehend. Círdan, in his decision to give away Narya; Elrond, in his decision to choose immortality; and, finally, Glorfindel, in his decision to be reborn. So who better than to contemplate Círdan's final fate than these two elves? One, who loves him as a father, and the other, who knows what the Halls of Mandos are like. I think Elrond and Glorfindel are infinitely appropriate candidates for the conversation. Well done.
I think my favorite part of this chapter was when Círdan tried to explain to Elrond and Glorfindel how the Sea is Ulmo, yet Ulmo is greater than the Sea. This is so true, so well put, and so applicable to real life. And I think I finally understand The Song of Ilúvatar because of this: (bear with me) Creation (in Tolkien) is The Song of Ilúvatar, and yet The Song is greater than Creation because Ilúvatar (Tolkien's God) is greater than Creation. Since the Elves themselves are a part of this Creation and yet not outside of it, of course they cannot hear the full Song, only echoes, bits and snatches. The fact that the Sea-elves in general and Círdan in particular seem to hear more than other Elves speaks volumes, I think, of their deep relationship with Ulmo and the grace he has given them to be so in tune with Creation. I think this makes sense. At least, it does to me anyhow.
Finally, after I had first read Círdan's statement "my heart lies with the Sea," I kept hoping that somehow, he would get his reward. I imagined some kind of crazy Círdan being taken by the Sea moment, or by Ulmo to live with him forever. Instead of going to Aman, which Círdan doesn't want. That makes him fundamentally separate from all of the other Elves, doesn't it, and in my opinion, heightens his loneliness and his truly unique character. So imagine my satisfaction as a reader when I read the end of this chapter and Círdan's final fate. How infinitely appropriate, how beautiful for the Shipwright. His heart will finally be at peace, finally have his greatest desire, as a reward for his millennia of service. Perfect ending! I think the only reason Elrond can't get over it is because he loves Círdan too much. But I think he will come to accept it, in time.
Beautiful story, Gwed! Can I just say how glad I am that I read "Three Rings" before this one, even though you wrote this one first? "Three Rings" gave me a glimpse into this world of Elven lords and Rings, and Círdan in particular. It made me want to know more. And then this story, in its beautifully melancholic introspection into Círdan was so fulfilling!
I look forward to the conversation ahead. : )
2Estel-Mi-OlorWow, I knew I would not be disappointed. By the way, I am studiously ignoring your PMs until I post this last review.
There is so much to say, and so many details to be discussed, reviewed, understood, and discussed again. This is such a fantastic story. As a whole, it is beyond impressive with the amount of research you conducted to make the story come to life. But let me not suggest this is merely a well-written research paper, but an actual story, with a gripping plot, and complexly unforgettable characters. I love how detailed it is, and how even if I wanted to, I can't just sit down and reread the whole thing in an afternoon. It demands my attention and engages my thoughts. *Love it!*
About this chapter specifically:
I hadn't fully appreciate the flashback until this chapter. I mean, I knew in the back of my mind that the whole story was a flashback, but obviously the reader knows things that Elrond and Glorfindel could not have been told. So thank you for mentioning that. We will never know exactly what Círdan told them and what he left out, I guess. I mean, perhaps upon a very careful reread we could piece it together, but I like it better this way.
I like how you explicitly stated (actually I think this was an Elrond thought) that the relationship between Ulmo and Círdan is like that of father and son. It's always nice to get a pat on the back for a guess well made ; ) I like how child-like Círdan had to be in this chapter, and how Elrond had to come to accept that this father figure for the half-elf could also be child-like. I think it was beautiful to have this chapter and final dialogue written from Elrond's perspective, rather than Círdan's. It serves a book-end to the first chapter, in which we see an outsider's glimpse of the Shipwright, before we actually read Círdan's inner thoughts, and then once again, the tale closes with the outsider's perceptions. So interesting, so very interesting to learn about the complexities of a personality, and to have that personality be accepted by one who loves the subject in question so deeply, as Elrond loves Círdan as a father. Especially when Elrond observes that Círdan is "fragile." That was beautiful.
"Why Elrond and Glorfindel, of all people, would be privy to such personal information about the Shipwright is beyond my knowledge"
No, it's not. You know, and you told us in this chapter. You stated how of Círdan, Elrond, and Glorfindel, each had made a decision which made him unique among elves, and a decision which the other two could not comprehend. Círdan, in his decision to give away Narya; Elrond, in his decision to choose immortality; and, finally, Glorfindel, in his decision to be reborn. So who better than to contemplate Círdan's final fate than these two elves? One, who loves him as a father, and the other, who knows what the Halls of Mandos are like. I think Elrond and Glorfindel are infinitely appropriate candidates for the conversation. Well done.
I think my favorite part of this chapter was when Círdan tried to explain to Elrond and Glorfindel how the Sea is Ulmo, yet Ulmo is greater than the Sea. This is so true, so well put, and so applicable to real life. And I think I finally understand The Song of Ilúvatar because of this: (bear with me) Creation (in Tolkien) is The Song of Ilúvatar, and yet The Song is greater than Creation because Ilúvatar (Tolkien's God) is greater than Creation. Since the Elves themselves are a part of this Creation and yet not outside of it, of course they cannot hear the full Song, only echoes, bits and snatches. The fact that the Sea-elves in general and Círdan in particular seem to hear more than other Elves speaks volumes, I think, of their deep relationship with Ulmo and the grace he has given them to be so in tune with Creation. I think this makes sense. At least, it does to me anyhow.
Finally, after I had first read Círdan's statement "my heart lies with the Sea," I kept hoping that somehow, he would get his reward. I imagined some kind of crazy Círdan being taken by the Sea moment, or by Ulmo to live with him forever. Instead of going to Aman, which Círdan doesn't want. That makes him fundamentally separate from all of the other Elves, doesn't it, and in my opinion, heightens his loneliness and his truly unique character. So imagine my satisfaction as a reader when I read the end of this chapter and Círdan's final fate. How infinitely appropriate, how beautiful for the Shipwright. His heart will finally be at peace, finally have his greatest desire, as a reward for his millennia of service. Perfect ending! I think the only reason Elrond can't get over it is because he loves Círdan too much. But I think he will come to accept it, in time.
Beautiful story, Gwed! Can I just say how glad I am that I read "Three Rings" before this one, even though you wrote this one first? "Three Rings" gave me a glimpse into this world of Elven lords and Rings, and Círdan in particular. It made me want to know more. And then this story, in its beautifully melancholic introspection into Círdan was so fulfilling!
I look forward to the conversation ahead. : )
12/5/2012 c9 Estel-Mi-Olor
"But as for me," he softly continued, "my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you."
I love the tragically beautiful in Tolkien, the melancholy, the sadness of a certain fate, and willingly accepting that fate.
Obviously, Círdan's words above had very little meaning for me as a reader (if I can even boast of having accorded them much significance at all), until I read your story. The words themselves are no less melancholy, but now, I understand.
What a beautiful end! I too had forgotten about the pearl...so I was happy that Círdan found it, found peace, and even more, discovered that Ulmo would always be with him. I cannot believe he is actually 14,000 years old. Wow. I think that makes the word ancient the understatement of the century, as you quipped.
Again, you further emphasize how Mithrandir is wise by having Círdan test him, but also because of his initial reaction to the whole Elven Ring discussion. Unlike a being who is proud and seeking for power, Mithrandir does not contemplate power as "something to be grasped, rather he emptied himself," and in his humility, he is truly wise. Well done!
Also, I don't think I commented on this before, but I should have: it must have been very difficult to write Saruman's character without the bias of knowing his eventual downfall. But you did him justice! At first, I was skeptical, thinking, there must be something here to tip off the *nod nod wink wink* reaction from us readers who already know what happens. But there wasn't. Really well-written.
Finally, although we didn't find out about the 4 month-2 day thing, I loved the conversation with Ossë and how his concern was for his beloved friend to now hate him. I think you do a wonderful job of emphasizing how love is at the very foundation of Tolkien's mythology and is the critically motivating factor for many of his characters and their actions. The Valar love the Free Peoples, and so, they seek to protect them, help them, counsel them. Mithrandir loves the Elves, and so he came as an Istar. Círdan loves his people and so he accepted Narya for them, and for the rest of ME. I wish there could be more of this in our world. Not just in reality, but also in our representation of fiction. I mean, just one example and I will stop rambling: in the movie version of RotK, Sam and Frodo have to quarrel. Their friendship can't remain pure, as it does in the original Tolkien. Why? Because Tolkien could envisage a friendship between two men born out of love, Platonic love, and clearly, this ideal cannot exist in our really messed up world.
Onward to the next chapter! And I hope it's really moving and I get all choked up...
"But as for me," he softly continued, "my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you."
I love the tragically beautiful in Tolkien, the melancholy, the sadness of a certain fate, and willingly accepting that fate.
Obviously, Círdan's words above had very little meaning for me as a reader (if I can even boast of having accorded them much significance at all), until I read your story. The words themselves are no less melancholy, but now, I understand.
What a beautiful end! I too had forgotten about the pearl...so I was happy that Círdan found it, found peace, and even more, discovered that Ulmo would always be with him. I cannot believe he is actually 14,000 years old. Wow. I think that makes the word ancient the understatement of the century, as you quipped.
Again, you further emphasize how Mithrandir is wise by having Círdan test him, but also because of his initial reaction to the whole Elven Ring discussion. Unlike a being who is proud and seeking for power, Mithrandir does not contemplate power as "something to be grasped, rather he emptied himself," and in his humility, he is truly wise. Well done!
Also, I don't think I commented on this before, but I should have: it must have been very difficult to write Saruman's character without the bias of knowing his eventual downfall. But you did him justice! At first, I was skeptical, thinking, there must be something here to tip off the *nod nod wink wink* reaction from us readers who already know what happens. But there wasn't. Really well-written.
Finally, although we didn't find out about the 4 month-2 day thing, I loved the conversation with Ossë and how his concern was for his beloved friend to now hate him. I think you do a wonderful job of emphasizing how love is at the very foundation of Tolkien's mythology and is the critically motivating factor for many of his characters and their actions. The Valar love the Free Peoples, and so, they seek to protect them, help them, counsel them. Mithrandir loves the Elves, and so he came as an Istar. Círdan loves his people and so he accepted Narya for them, and for the rest of ME. I wish there could be more of this in our world. Not just in reality, but also in our representation of fiction. I mean, just one example and I will stop rambling: in the movie version of RotK, Sam and Frodo have to quarrel. Their friendship can't remain pure, as it does in the original Tolkien. Why? Because Tolkien could envisage a friendship between two men born out of love, Platonic love, and clearly, this ideal cannot exist in our really messed up world.
Onward to the next chapter! And I hope it's really moving and I get all choked up...
12/4/2012 c8 Estel-Mi-Olor
Great chapter! I think I usually praise dialogue, but this chapter really stuck out to me with the thoughts of the characters, especially Círdan but also Galdor. Again, you have truly shown us how wise Círdan is! I admire your planning in writing all this. I mean, in this chapter you used dialogue from the previous chapters in Círdan's thinking on the Istari and to which of them he should give Narya. That takes planning.
I love how Círdan initially gravitates toward Curunír, but then realizes Mithrandir is the correct choice. Again, you worked that vision in there early on! Talk about planning. Can't get over it ; ) I am super excited to read the next chapter, because I know Mithrandir is not going to accept Narya without a fight. In fact, I hazard a guess that Mithrandir's reaction will make Círdan's reaction to Gil-Galad pale in comparison. We'll see.
Aha, so now I get Círdan's madness. I didn't realize that others knew he had Narya. But now, this makes sense. Yes, I guess those who truly love and respect him could buy the whole four-month-into-two-days-storm-voyage finding 3 Men thing, but for Círdan to give away Narya on top of all that...yes, I sympathize with Galdor's near mental breakdown.
I appreciate how you provided a brief glimpse into Galdor's history. Just enough for us to understand his relationship to Círdan and his reaction to Círdan's "madness." Perfect.
Oh no, this question is not going unanswered: so you're telling me only the Sea-Elves hear Ilúvatar's Song? Because of their connection with the Sea? And no other elves do this? Not even Silvan elves, shall we say, despite their close connections to Arda? Please explain to me! Unless of course it all comes clear in the next chapter, and you will be spoiling things for me. I know you warned me of this before. Okay, I'll stop whining, I will finish the story, hopefully tomorrow, and then we can have a fabulous discussion.
Great chapter! I think I usually praise dialogue, but this chapter really stuck out to me with the thoughts of the characters, especially Círdan but also Galdor. Again, you have truly shown us how wise Círdan is! I admire your planning in writing all this. I mean, in this chapter you used dialogue from the previous chapters in Círdan's thinking on the Istari and to which of them he should give Narya. That takes planning.
I love how Círdan initially gravitates toward Curunír, but then realizes Mithrandir is the correct choice. Again, you worked that vision in there early on! Talk about planning. Can't get over it ; ) I am super excited to read the next chapter, because I know Mithrandir is not going to accept Narya without a fight. In fact, I hazard a guess that Mithrandir's reaction will make Círdan's reaction to Gil-Galad pale in comparison. We'll see.
Aha, so now I get Círdan's madness. I didn't realize that others knew he had Narya. But now, this makes sense. Yes, I guess those who truly love and respect him could buy the whole four-month-into-two-days-storm-voyage finding 3 Men thing, but for Círdan to give away Narya on top of all that...yes, I sympathize with Galdor's near mental breakdown.
I appreciate how you provided a brief glimpse into Galdor's history. Just enough for us to understand his relationship to Círdan and his reaction to Círdan's "madness." Perfect.
Oh no, this question is not going unanswered: so you're telling me only the Sea-Elves hear Ilúvatar's Song? Because of their connection with the Sea? And no other elves do this? Not even Silvan elves, shall we say, despite their close connections to Arda? Please explain to me! Unless of course it all comes clear in the next chapter, and you will be spoiling things for me. I know you warned me of this before. Okay, I'll stop whining, I will finish the story, hopefully tomorrow, and then we can have a fabulous discussion.
12/3/2012 c7 Estel-Mi-Olor
"What is left to garner your fascination?" he yelled out to them. "She has returned in one piece and your lord is safe. Now, do you not all have toil to be done or lives to go about living?"
This made me laugh.
I'm sorry, I googled this word, but the definition did not clarify the sentence for me. What on earth is a "skirl?"
Perhaps there was too much build-up and hype, or perhaps I am too trusting, and too accepting. But I do not believe that Ëarhín believes Círdan to be mad. I just don't buy it. The love that Ëarnín holds for Círdan is so obvious, so deeply entrenched, that I believe the helmsman's declaration that he would trust the many improbable statements Círdan could tell him. So why would he not believe Círdan now? I understand the logical and rational arguments that Ëarhín has identified as to the oddness of Círdan's whole journey, but it seems to me like these objections should be as nothing in the face of the deep love and trust the former has of the latter. Ëarhín trusted that Ulmo summoned Círdan on a secret mission in the middle of an insane storm. He trusted that Círdan would make it safely through the storm. It seems to me he would also trust the explanation, the need for secrecy, and how the intervention of the Valar could have made such a journey in a day, how the mast could have been healed, and how the Men could have appeared. I think of Ëarhín as a very simple person, in the best sense of the word. Not simple as in stupid, but simple as in wholly good, so that he has no room for doubts and fears of madness. But simply good, simply trusting, simply loving of his lord. I do not want to be disappointed in this great character! Of course, I recognize that no one is perfect, and everyone has their complexities and flaws. I also acknowledge that I haven't yet finished the story, so maybe there is yet one more element to Círdan's supposed "madness" that will come to light.
"What is left to garner your fascination?" he yelled out to them. "She has returned in one piece and your lord is safe. Now, do you not all have toil to be done or lives to go about living?"
This made me laugh.
I'm sorry, I googled this word, but the definition did not clarify the sentence for me. What on earth is a "skirl?"
Perhaps there was too much build-up and hype, or perhaps I am too trusting, and too accepting. But I do not believe that Ëarhín believes Círdan to be mad. I just don't buy it. The love that Ëarnín holds for Círdan is so obvious, so deeply entrenched, that I believe the helmsman's declaration that he would trust the many improbable statements Círdan could tell him. So why would he not believe Círdan now? I understand the logical and rational arguments that Ëarhín has identified as to the oddness of Círdan's whole journey, but it seems to me like these objections should be as nothing in the face of the deep love and trust the former has of the latter. Ëarhín trusted that Ulmo summoned Círdan on a secret mission in the middle of an insane storm. He trusted that Círdan would make it safely through the storm. It seems to me he would also trust the explanation, the need for secrecy, and how the intervention of the Valar could have made such a journey in a day, how the mast could have been healed, and how the Men could have appeared. I think of Ëarhín as a very simple person, in the best sense of the word. Not simple as in stupid, but simple as in wholly good, so that he has no room for doubts and fears of madness. But simply good, simply trusting, simply loving of his lord. I do not want to be disappointed in this great character! Of course, I recognize that no one is perfect, and everyone has their complexities and flaws. I also acknowledge that I haven't yet finished the story, so maybe there is yet one more element to Círdan's supposed "madness" that will come to light.
12/3/2012 c6 Estel-Mi-Olor
"Yet, learned I have long ago that the beginning of wisdom is silence, followed by listening in your silence, followed by committing to memory of that what you listened to, followed by practicing that which you had committed to memory, followed by mastering that which you practiced, and lastly teaching that which you have mastered."
I wish I could write something equally resonant in praise of that sentence, but I can't. I merely observe that such insight is not the product of a shallow mind.
I love Ulmo/Círdan moments. Love them. The end of this chapter was so beautiful, so touching. The moments of peace that Círdan receives are so significant because you have detailed how badly he is in need of that peace and why. The second half of the chapter, if I can distinguish in this way between Istari Conversations and Ulmo's Appearance, is so perfectly juxtaposed against the turmoil of the first half, and the turbulence of the conversations Círdan has been having of late. I feel calm, as a reader, like, yes, it's all going to be okay now. Círdan is going to be okay.
What a poignant way to gift Círdan a pearl. I appreciate how that idea was introduced in the first chapter, and unexpectedly realized in this chapter. Thank you also for the Thranduil praise. It makes me smile. Stupid question, or maybe not, but I think it's Mithrandir who emphasizes how the Istari are sent to ME to unite the Free People against Sauron? Well is this the main reason why, in FotR, a representative from each Race is chosen to compose the Nine Walkers? The penny dropped on that one for me is that's true...
Some really excellent writing, as usual, but certain sentences stuck out to me in this chapter. The first paragraph: the wind as a fell beast, and "burning blood." What great imagery. Also, the "vault of memory." What a perfect what to describe Elven memory.
I also like the tidbit about Ilúvatar's Song we learn in this chapter. I look forward to more. I am also curious as to why the Istari don't know more about the Elven Rings. I feel like they could simply sense that Círdan was wearing one. Or at least, they could figure it out by talking to him, or through process of elimination. I don't know, but I find it rather intriguing, or perhaps ominous, that they can't figure it out. I look forward to the big reveal, at least in Mithrandir's case.
"Yet, learned I have long ago that the beginning of wisdom is silence, followed by listening in your silence, followed by committing to memory of that what you listened to, followed by practicing that which you had committed to memory, followed by mastering that which you practiced, and lastly teaching that which you have mastered."
I wish I could write something equally resonant in praise of that sentence, but I can't. I merely observe that such insight is not the product of a shallow mind.
I love Ulmo/Círdan moments. Love them. The end of this chapter was so beautiful, so touching. The moments of peace that Círdan receives are so significant because you have detailed how badly he is in need of that peace and why. The second half of the chapter, if I can distinguish in this way between Istari Conversations and Ulmo's Appearance, is so perfectly juxtaposed against the turmoil of the first half, and the turbulence of the conversations Círdan has been having of late. I feel calm, as a reader, like, yes, it's all going to be okay now. Círdan is going to be okay.
What a poignant way to gift Círdan a pearl. I appreciate how that idea was introduced in the first chapter, and unexpectedly realized in this chapter. Thank you also for the Thranduil praise. It makes me smile. Stupid question, or maybe not, but I think it's Mithrandir who emphasizes how the Istari are sent to ME to unite the Free People against Sauron? Well is this the main reason why, in FotR, a representative from each Race is chosen to compose the Nine Walkers? The penny dropped on that one for me is that's true...
Some really excellent writing, as usual, but certain sentences stuck out to me in this chapter. The first paragraph: the wind as a fell beast, and "burning blood." What great imagery. Also, the "vault of memory." What a perfect what to describe Elven memory.
I also like the tidbit about Ilúvatar's Song we learn in this chapter. I look forward to more. I am also curious as to why the Istari don't know more about the Elven Rings. I feel like they could simply sense that Círdan was wearing one. Or at least, they could figure it out by talking to him, or through process of elimination. I don't know, but I find it rather intriguing, or perhaps ominous, that they can't figure it out. I look forward to the big reveal, at least in Mithrandir's case.
12/3/2012 c5 Estel-Mi-Olor
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention this in my review of the last chapter, I'm writing this now before I read chapter 5, so if I sound schizo later in my review, that's why:
PS-I didn't think Círdan's moment of rage was out of character at all! I was like, aha okay let's finally find out the core of Círdan here, what is his secret grievance. Looking forward to the answers (in the next chapter, duh).
Okay onto this chapter now:
Wow. What a beautifully melancholic chapter, I loved this! A side note-I don't know how I could possibly NOT review every chapter, even if the story is complete, since there is so much to say.
As you well know, I have no idea what the canon is and what is your own invention. I can hazard some guesses, but I won't. However, I don't think it's important. Simply because, I was not confused at all during this chapter. I know you warned in the beginning that without reading The Silm, a lot in this chapter might not make sense, but I really had no problems! Obviously, I don't really know the history you are referring to, and I can't pick out what's Tolkien and what isn't, but, like I said, this did not detract from my reading and understanding this chapter in any way. If only, it has further whetted my curiosity to know more.
I'm not quite sure how to express this, but this particular chapter really heightens my respect for Tolkien in creating this world, whether because of the immortality of elves or their interaction with divine beings, but that history is so alive and integral to every action. Not like our reality, in which history still exists, but does not define every decision because we ourselves did not live through it, nor do we know anyone who has. Yet the history of ME is existentially inseparable from the characters, and I love, love, love how you provide so much of that detail! It makes me truly believe the story and the integrity of the characters. Beyond excellent research here!
Let's talk about Círdan. It made me so sad in the beginning of the chapter to read about "how he once was" and is no longer. Talk about showing and not telling: I know you've mentioned how ancient and wise Círdan is, but I don't think I really believed that until this chapter. The depth of his sorrow when speaking to Mithrandir is so moving, especially because you explain why. Further, his anger, his weariness, the source of his wisdom, his Sight, everything combined is so tragically beautiful! You've really made this character come to life and I could not fathom a more just portrayal of The Shipwright.
As for Mithrandir, so well written! This is exactly how he is and I can't think of anything better to say. I love the parallel moment of Mithrandir calling Círdan "penneth" with Círdan having called Glorfindel that earlier. It made me laugh.
Aha, so now I get Ossë. I appreciate why you wouldn't explain it earlier. Like I said before, all this history is just so fascinating! And the characters become so complex, so multi-layered, every action has an explanation, that now, trying to render anything without such a sense of the past makes the action seem flat and unrealistic. I'm going to have to do some serious research, I see.
On writing like Tolkien: I know I obsessed about this in your other fic, but I hadn't noticed it in this story until this chapter. You really stepped it up here, but it was very appropriate. I particularly like the sentences that begin with "and." They really make the writing flow as an ancient epic-sounding thing would. (So eloquent I know!)
Finally...question: I know you'll give us sources at the end, but I am super curious (you know why): is it your conjecture that Thranduil was a lord of Doriath? (I mean it totally makes sense, no criticism). I'm just trying to gather as much history on that particular character as I can, so if there's a juicy little tidbit that Tolkien left us somewhere out there, I would love to know about it!
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention this in my review of the last chapter, I'm writing this now before I read chapter 5, so if I sound schizo later in my review, that's why:
PS-I didn't think Círdan's moment of rage was out of character at all! I was like, aha okay let's finally find out the core of Círdan here, what is his secret grievance. Looking forward to the answers (in the next chapter, duh).
Okay onto this chapter now:
Wow. What a beautifully melancholic chapter, I loved this! A side note-I don't know how I could possibly NOT review every chapter, even if the story is complete, since there is so much to say.
As you well know, I have no idea what the canon is and what is your own invention. I can hazard some guesses, but I won't. However, I don't think it's important. Simply because, I was not confused at all during this chapter. I know you warned in the beginning that without reading The Silm, a lot in this chapter might not make sense, but I really had no problems! Obviously, I don't really know the history you are referring to, and I can't pick out what's Tolkien and what isn't, but, like I said, this did not detract from my reading and understanding this chapter in any way. If only, it has further whetted my curiosity to know more.
I'm not quite sure how to express this, but this particular chapter really heightens my respect for Tolkien in creating this world, whether because of the immortality of elves or their interaction with divine beings, but that history is so alive and integral to every action. Not like our reality, in which history still exists, but does not define every decision because we ourselves did not live through it, nor do we know anyone who has. Yet the history of ME is existentially inseparable from the characters, and I love, love, love how you provide so much of that detail! It makes me truly believe the story and the integrity of the characters. Beyond excellent research here!
Let's talk about Círdan. It made me so sad in the beginning of the chapter to read about "how he once was" and is no longer. Talk about showing and not telling: I know you've mentioned how ancient and wise Círdan is, but I don't think I really believed that until this chapter. The depth of his sorrow when speaking to Mithrandir is so moving, especially because you explain why. Further, his anger, his weariness, the source of his wisdom, his Sight, everything combined is so tragically beautiful! You've really made this character come to life and I could not fathom a more just portrayal of The Shipwright.
As for Mithrandir, so well written! This is exactly how he is and I can't think of anything better to say. I love the parallel moment of Mithrandir calling Círdan "penneth" with Círdan having called Glorfindel that earlier. It made me laugh.
Aha, so now I get Ossë. I appreciate why you wouldn't explain it earlier. Like I said before, all this history is just so fascinating! And the characters become so complex, so multi-layered, every action has an explanation, that now, trying to render anything without such a sense of the past makes the action seem flat and unrealistic. I'm going to have to do some serious research, I see.
On writing like Tolkien: I know I obsessed about this in your other fic, but I hadn't noticed it in this story until this chapter. You really stepped it up here, but it was very appropriate. I particularly like the sentences that begin with "and." They really make the writing flow as an ancient epic-sounding thing would. (So eloquent I know!)
Finally...question: I know you'll give us sources at the end, but I am super curious (you know why): is it your conjecture that Thranduil was a lord of Doriath? (I mean it totally makes sense, no criticism). I'm just trying to gather as much history on that particular character as I can, so if there's a juicy little tidbit that Tolkien left us somewhere out there, I would love to know about it!
12/2/2012 c4 Estel-Mi-Olor
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without gaining the answer to it"
Truth. Well put.
Another excellent chapter! I love the dialogue between Mithrandir and Círdan. You write them both so well. Wow, it definitely strikes home now how unique and important Círdan is among elves, for he is the only one to know who the Istari really are. Thanks for emphasizing that!
I like also how you detail that the Istari's tactics are the opposite of Sauron's. I think it's very important to distinguish the methods, especially as Círdan now grapples with the question of free will. A brilliant cliff-hanger, by the way! This is an enormously important question, and of course I will keep reading to find out what Mithrandir says. I suspect I have an inkling, but I will say nothing about it.
I love how Mithrandir did not want to go originally, but only did so out of love. Again, I highlight my canon ignorance, maybe Tolkien's got a whole chapter about this meeting of the Valar and how this decision was made. If he doesn't though, wow! Of course Mithrandir would go out of love and this is why he was the greatest of the Istari, why he was not corrupted, and why he was truly wise. I'm glad you appreciate the bible parallels, so I'll keep going: I hate it when people who are studying LotR in school refer to Gandalf as the "Christ figure" without understanding why. This is a compelling reason.
"And he was surprised to find out just how humble Mithrandir was in the confidence of his own strength and value. That, to Círdan, spoke volumes of his honesty and clarity, for he had seen that humility was the solid foundation of all virtues"
Just a great quote that illustrates what I said above!
Some random thoughts: I loved how Círdan woke up with messy hair. That made me laugh! I also appreciated the Thranduil shout-out. I don't think you have a Círdan/Thranduil fic, but there's an idea for you!
So I'm trying not to phrase these as questions...so instead I will boldly make assertions of which I am entirely ignorant, and then read on so as to realize I am wrong ; )
I love how the relationship between Ulmo and Círdan is like that of a father to his son. Now I don't know enough about ME history to claim this with any certainty, but I have a vague notion that sometime in First Age, the elves were "awoken?" So, continuing out on this limb, I gather certain elves don't have parents? Might Círdan be among those? Therefore, might his relationship with Ulmo fill the very necessary void one experiences for a parent, specifically in this case a father? And these are all assertions...despite the question marks.
Finally, I just think it's interesting how you comment on Tolkien's cosmology (maybe Tolkien did this himself), with the fallibility of the Valar. This comes clear to me in this chapter with the choice of Curunír as one of the Istari. We know what happens to him (I don't know what happens to Radagast, so I'm sticking with what I know on this one), so to me, that just shows that the Valar, while semi-divine, are not, in fact, all-knowing as divine beings are supposed to be. I know there's still Eru?Ilúvatar, the top guy, above the Valar, but I just thought I would comment on this anyways.
But yeah, really great, interesting chapter! I've starting listing my thoughts as I read in order to remember what to comment on, since your chapters are so meaty! Reading on now.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without gaining the answer to it"
Truth. Well put.
Another excellent chapter! I love the dialogue between Mithrandir and Círdan. You write them both so well. Wow, it definitely strikes home now how unique and important Círdan is among elves, for he is the only one to know who the Istari really are. Thanks for emphasizing that!
I like also how you detail that the Istari's tactics are the opposite of Sauron's. I think it's very important to distinguish the methods, especially as Círdan now grapples with the question of free will. A brilliant cliff-hanger, by the way! This is an enormously important question, and of course I will keep reading to find out what Mithrandir says. I suspect I have an inkling, but I will say nothing about it.
I love how Mithrandir did not want to go originally, but only did so out of love. Again, I highlight my canon ignorance, maybe Tolkien's got a whole chapter about this meeting of the Valar and how this decision was made. If he doesn't though, wow! Of course Mithrandir would go out of love and this is why he was the greatest of the Istari, why he was not corrupted, and why he was truly wise. I'm glad you appreciate the bible parallels, so I'll keep going: I hate it when people who are studying LotR in school refer to Gandalf as the "Christ figure" without understanding why. This is a compelling reason.
"And he was surprised to find out just how humble Mithrandir was in the confidence of his own strength and value. That, to Círdan, spoke volumes of his honesty and clarity, for he had seen that humility was the solid foundation of all virtues"
Just a great quote that illustrates what I said above!
Some random thoughts: I loved how Círdan woke up with messy hair. That made me laugh! I also appreciated the Thranduil shout-out. I don't think you have a Círdan/Thranduil fic, but there's an idea for you!
So I'm trying not to phrase these as questions...so instead I will boldly make assertions of which I am entirely ignorant, and then read on so as to realize I am wrong ; )
I love how the relationship between Ulmo and Círdan is like that of a father to his son. Now I don't know enough about ME history to claim this with any certainty, but I have a vague notion that sometime in First Age, the elves were "awoken?" So, continuing out on this limb, I gather certain elves don't have parents? Might Círdan be among those? Therefore, might his relationship with Ulmo fill the very necessary void one experiences for a parent, specifically in this case a father? And these are all assertions...despite the question marks.
Finally, I just think it's interesting how you comment on Tolkien's cosmology (maybe Tolkien did this himself), with the fallibility of the Valar. This comes clear to me in this chapter with the choice of Curunír as one of the Istari. We know what happens to him (I don't know what happens to Radagast, so I'm sticking with what I know on this one), so to me, that just shows that the Valar, while semi-divine, are not, in fact, all-knowing as divine beings are supposed to be. I know there's still Eru?Ilúvatar, the top guy, above the Valar, but I just thought I would comment on this anyways.
But yeah, really great, interesting chapter! I've starting listing my thoughts as I read in order to remember what to comment on, since your chapters are so meaty! Reading on now.
11/29/2012 c3 Estel-Mi-Olor
I'm going to say this is my favorite chapter, but I haven't read the other ones yet, so maybe I'll revise this ; )
This was beautifully written! I started reading this a tad too fast, I think, just to figure out what would happen, but I had to slow down as the descriptions were so fragile, in a beautiful sense, that I did not want to break them. But I will probably have to reread so I can relish the words a little more.
I love that Círdan finally finds peace. You do such a good job with his characterization, that in the first chapter, with the juxtaposition of the sea-elves general contentment and Círdan's unrest, I think the reader shares the Mariner's anxiety. In this chapter, the feeling of peace is really profound. Hey, I've never been out on a boat looking at stars, but it sure sounds amazing.
Three cheers for Mithrandir! Wow, this is like a crash-course in the Silm. Thank you! And this is very intriguing! Mithrandir calls him Círdan, not Nówë, his real name, which I'm guessing he already knows by virtue of being a Maia? Oh I know this is going to be interesting...
I'm going to say this is my favorite chapter, but I haven't read the other ones yet, so maybe I'll revise this ; )
This was beautifully written! I started reading this a tad too fast, I think, just to figure out what would happen, but I had to slow down as the descriptions were so fragile, in a beautiful sense, that I did not want to break them. But I will probably have to reread so I can relish the words a little more.
I love that Círdan finally finds peace. You do such a good job with his characterization, that in the first chapter, with the juxtaposition of the sea-elves general contentment and Círdan's unrest, I think the reader shares the Mariner's anxiety. In this chapter, the feeling of peace is really profound. Hey, I've never been out on a boat looking at stars, but it sure sounds amazing.
Three cheers for Mithrandir! Wow, this is like a crash-course in the Silm. Thank you! And this is very intriguing! Mithrandir calls him Círdan, not Nówë, his real name, which I'm guessing he already knows by virtue of being a Maia? Oh I know this is going to be interesting...
11/29/2012 c2 Estel-Mi-Olor
Whew, can I just saw that was GREAT! You had me on the edge of my seat during the storm sequence. The nautical language was not overwhelming, I mean I could have looked up the terms in your glossary if I wanted to, but the whole barrage of language I wasn't familiar with made the whole thing a blur, but I think this was highly appropriate given the drama of the storm. The storm itself was excellent, I could picture exactly what was going on, and I wasn't confused by this wave or that wave.
Okay, let me try to keep all my thoughts somewhat organized...
1) Epigraph (? I think that's what the opening quote is called?)-awesome. I really appreciate it when authors include quotes from sources besides Tolkien. Chopin's quote was so infinitely appropriate to this chapter that she obviously had this in mind when writing "The Awakening" (assuming I've picked the right book...) : )
2) Super small detail, but I appreciate consistency: in chapter 1 you described the actions of this chapter as occurring exactly one year prior. Well those after-effects of winter gales happened too. Like I said, ridiculous detail, but I like it.
3) Círdan's real name: I have no idea if this is in The Silm and is Tolkien's idea, if so, another great use of canon, and if not...this is brilliant! It makes his relationship with Ulmo so deep and almost existential, like he would not be Círdan without this relationship. Beautiful.
4) Relationship between Ulmo & Círdan-wow! This was so well written. I love how you portray Círdan in chapter 1, and then we get to see this other side of him in chapter 2, and then we must reconcile both sides into the same person. The trust which Círdan had to place in Ulmo reminded me a lot of many different bible stories, in which various people must place their trust in God (I mean Noah being a very obvious example, but I could expound...). But I love how personal and loving their relationship seems to be. I can't wait to find out what happens next!
5) Poor Ëarhín. I really thought he was going to have a heart-attack...
6) Question, and then I'm done (the review part at least). (PS-sorry I am using you as my like Q&A Silmarillion, instead of reading the book myself) So you state how Ulmo awakes the sea-longing in an elf by sounding his horn. But then Ossë has a fit of rage at an elf leaving Middle Earth and so causes an insane storm to prevent the departure. But Ossë serves Ulmo yes? I am confused...this seems like somewhat contradictory behavior.
Sorry for longest review ever, will PM next time : )
Whew, can I just saw that was GREAT! You had me on the edge of my seat during the storm sequence. The nautical language was not overwhelming, I mean I could have looked up the terms in your glossary if I wanted to, but the whole barrage of language I wasn't familiar with made the whole thing a blur, but I think this was highly appropriate given the drama of the storm. The storm itself was excellent, I could picture exactly what was going on, and I wasn't confused by this wave or that wave.
Okay, let me try to keep all my thoughts somewhat organized...
1) Epigraph (? I think that's what the opening quote is called?)-awesome. I really appreciate it when authors include quotes from sources besides Tolkien. Chopin's quote was so infinitely appropriate to this chapter that she obviously had this in mind when writing "The Awakening" (assuming I've picked the right book...) : )
2) Super small detail, but I appreciate consistency: in chapter 1 you described the actions of this chapter as occurring exactly one year prior. Well those after-effects of winter gales happened too. Like I said, ridiculous detail, but I like it.
3) Círdan's real name: I have no idea if this is in The Silm and is Tolkien's idea, if so, another great use of canon, and if not...this is brilliant! It makes his relationship with Ulmo so deep and almost existential, like he would not be Círdan without this relationship. Beautiful.
4) Relationship between Ulmo & Círdan-wow! This was so well written. I love how you portray Círdan in chapter 1, and then we get to see this other side of him in chapter 2, and then we must reconcile both sides into the same person. The trust which Círdan had to place in Ulmo reminded me a lot of many different bible stories, in which various people must place their trust in God (I mean Noah being a very obvious example, but I could expound...). But I love how personal and loving their relationship seems to be. I can't wait to find out what happens next!
5) Poor Ëarhín. I really thought he was going to have a heart-attack...
6) Question, and then I'm done (the review part at least). (PS-sorry I am using you as my like Q&A Silmarillion, instead of reading the book myself) So you state how Ulmo awakes the sea-longing in an elf by sounding his horn. But then Ossë has a fit of rage at an elf leaving Middle Earth and so causes an insane storm to prevent the departure. But Ossë serves Ulmo yes? I am confused...this seems like somewhat contradictory behavior.
Sorry for longest review ever, will PM next time : )
11/26/2012 c1 Estel-Mi-Olor
I knew this would be interesting, and I was not disappointed!
I love Ëarhín! He seems like the perfect counterpoint to Círdan's seriousness. I like the way you used his reaction to Fëagaer to create a sense of awe that most people wouldn't feel for a ship. It worked well (I also appreciate the glossary of nautical terms, since I know nothing of ships...). I am very intrigued to find out about Mithrandir. I had a thought while reading this: does Glorfindel know Mithrandir? From dying...I don't know. The relationship between Glorfindel and Elrond is very well done as well. Tolkien's description of Elrond was always puzzling to me, how he was as "kind as summer," so I am interested by your interpretation.
"Círdan was like a Sea-elf existing alone amongst the Sea-elves"
I love how you put this sentence at the end of the chapter, but you had already anticipated it with your descriptions of Círdan throughout. I felt he was so alone, and then you said so. Brilliant. What I find most intriguing is how you describe the Sea-elves as being more content than other elves, yet Círdan is clearly not at peace. Very interesting juxtaposition. I look forward to reading more!
Two questions though: why is Glorfindel referred to as "the Elda?" I mean, not why, but what does that mean exactly? Also...the only reason I noticed this is because I am obsessed with giving things their right names, so was the Greenwood already called Mirkwood by this point in the T.A?
I knew this would be interesting, and I was not disappointed!
I love Ëarhín! He seems like the perfect counterpoint to Círdan's seriousness. I like the way you used his reaction to Fëagaer to create a sense of awe that most people wouldn't feel for a ship. It worked well (I also appreciate the glossary of nautical terms, since I know nothing of ships...). I am very intrigued to find out about Mithrandir. I had a thought while reading this: does Glorfindel know Mithrandir? From dying...I don't know. The relationship between Glorfindel and Elrond is very well done as well. Tolkien's description of Elrond was always puzzling to me, how he was as "kind as summer," so I am interested by your interpretation.
"Círdan was like a Sea-elf existing alone amongst the Sea-elves"
I love how you put this sentence at the end of the chapter, but you had already anticipated it with your descriptions of Círdan throughout. I felt he was so alone, and then you said so. Brilliant. What I find most intriguing is how you describe the Sea-elves as being more content than other elves, yet Círdan is clearly not at peace. Very interesting juxtaposition. I look forward to reading more!
Two questions though: why is Glorfindel referred to as "the Elda?" I mean, not why, but what does that mean exactly? Also...the only reason I noticed this is because I am obsessed with giving things their right names, so was the Greenwood already called Mirkwood by this point in the T.A?
8/31/2012 c10 Guest
ch's 1-10 built a very good story about if you could rewrite the Bible using Tolkien as a base,you would start a new religion.
ch's 1-10 built a very good story about if you could rewrite the Bible using Tolkien as a base,you would start a new religion.
8/16/2012 c10 4GreenGreatDragon
wow. i can definitely say your time and energy was well spent on this chapter and this story. i enjoyed it immensely and am sure i will return to it periodically, probably after browsing through fanfiction and finding nothing but mary-sues and poorly written legolas-worship fics, to restore my faith in fanfiction authors' writing abilities! once again, very well done and i look forward to your next fic! sounds intriguing! :)
4GreenGreatDragonwow. i can definitely say your time and energy was well spent on this chapter and this story. i enjoyed it immensely and am sure i will return to it periodically, probably after browsing through fanfiction and finding nothing but mary-sues and poorly written legolas-worship fics, to restore my faith in fanfiction authors' writing abilities! once again, very well done and i look forward to your next fic! sounds intriguing! :)
8/13/2012 c10 12SadieSil
This is one of those moments I wish I had a beta to correct my reviews as well, because there are so many things I wanted to say about your last chapter that I don't know English enough to put out in words.
Wonderful! Every moment! Each image you create of the characters, young, old... their fellowship, their wishes to understand, to comprehend the history... I can't express how I loved each word you used. I am dying to read your next story. Reading your texts is the better and most pleasure way to learn English and to learn how to write a wonderful story. Congratulations and sorry for my mistakes.
12SadieSilThis is one of those moments I wish I had a beta to correct my reviews as well, because there are so many things I wanted to say about your last chapter that I don't know English enough to put out in words.
Wonderful! Every moment! Each image you create of the characters, young, old... their fellowship, their wishes to understand, to comprehend the history... I can't express how I loved each word you used. I am dying to read your next story. Reading your texts is the better and most pleasure way to learn English and to learn how to write a wonderful story. Congratulations and sorry for my mistakes.