Discuss what you like and dislike about the Jonda coupling (St. John Allerdyce-Pyro and Wanda Maximoff-Scarlet Witch) here.5/1/2006 #1 Report
*looks around, stands up* I am a Jonda addict. That felt good.
That said, what bugs me about this couple is that so often it's just "Oh, this is a Romy! Let's put in some Kiotr and... what was that third one? Jonda! Yeah! Cause that's what you do!" Jonda for the sake of Jonda, people!5/3/2006 #2 Report
I have a confession to make: When I started "Nine to Five" I had no plans for romance for John. He was just going to be the random single friend who would supply comic relief and disrupt conversations that I couldn't finish.
I had my first three chapters written, two posted when someone reviewed and asked to see if I could work out a rare (possibly non-existant) pairing of St. John and Kitty. Now, in my chapter 3 which i hadn't posted, I had implied future Kiotr and at that time I didn't see that many of them (Lancitty was BIG), but it got me thinking about possibly pairing John up with someone. Then I got suggestions of both Tabby and Wanda after I posted chapter 3 (in response to the fact that "only a crazy fille would date him").
That just opened up a whole new spell of ideas for me. St. John and Wanda equals awesome. And they were so fun to write. They quickly surpassed Romy as my favorite coupling (if you couldn't tell).
The Jonda stories I hate the most are the emotional blackmail suicide ones. I mentioned this in my Jonda C2 rules. I absolutely hate it when the story is a unrequited or slowly requited relationship between the two. Then the one not getting the loving gets depressed and decides to commit suicide, but they write a note to the other saying something to the effect that I'm killing myself because you don't love me, or if you love me come stop me. Now the other feels emotionally responsible for the fate of the depressed one, no matter if they truly love them or not. So they go and stop the other from committing suicide just in time, and live happily ever after. And the author thinks this is romantic when in actuallity it is emotional blackmail. The nonsuicidal one is stuck in this relationship they didn't want to get into the first place, but they can't get out of it because the suicidal one might try and kill 'emself again. The nonsuicidal one may only like the suicidal one to the level that they do not want to see them dead. It just irks me very much.5/4/2006 #3 Report
Kind of like my reaction to Jonda- it's like sugar. I've never read any angsty Jondas like that- except for Ariesque's, but she doesn't count, because she's amazing.
I've written St. John/Kitty- I think seeing that comment in one of your review replies was what planted it in my head, but I think I've seen one other... I dunno, it was nothing doing for me. I just wanted to write it to see if I could.5/4/2006 #4 Report
Kind of like my reaction to Jonda- it's like sugar. I've never read any angsty Jondas like that- except for Ariesque's, but she doesn't count, because she's amazing.
I'm not against angst. Angst is very enjoyable. Makes the couple all the more great when they overcome all the obstacles against them. Its just the suicidal emotional blackmail thing. I mean, there can even be suicide or attempted suicide in a piece; It is when the character places their "fate" in the hands of the rejecter that gets me. And the fact that people think this is romantic. If the character just goes off to kill themselves and the other person finds them and stops them, that's okay too. They can even admit feelings for each other,-says in mocking tone- "Don't jump. I don't know what I'll do without you." "Why? What do you mean?" "I...I love you and can't bare the thought of losing you." "No, I mean, I'm not going to jump off the building! Do you think I'm crazy? That I have some sort of death wish? I still have to see whether the Sopranos are going going to kill each other. I just came up here to see the rare passenger pigeon perched on that ledge over there...." Okay that got a little off, but those first three lines are okay. Do ya get what I'm saying yet?5/5/2006 . Edited 5/5/2006 #5 Report
I got what you were saying right away. By angsty, I meant stupid-angsty. Good angsty Jondas make me purr.
...and this has nothing to do with anything, but it's LOSING. ONE 'L'. ONE, *censored*. Loosing has an entirely different meaning... sorry. That one gets my hackles up because EVERYONE DOES IT, even people who should know better. It makes my eye twitch.
See, now I have an image of John saying the "And a tape recorder can't fly away and break your heart!" line from Scrubs! IT'S IN MY BRAIN.5/5/2006 #6 Report
I never know if people understand what I'm saying. My mind doesn't think very linearly and I tend to go off on tangents. I'm getting better at clarifying but some days are worse than others.
Sorry, I didn't even notice my typo.
Off topic: I watched Scrubs a couple weeks ago and it was the episode where Turk found out Carla was pregnant before she did and everyone was going to surprise her. And the balloons, the fetus balloons. And when Turk texted JD to call it off, he took out a pin and yelled, "Abort the babies!" right in front of the priest. That was great!5/5/2006 #7 Report
Still off-topic: Scrubs is the BEST SHOW EVER. I can't believe NBC keeps messing with it!
Sorry, back to topic.
Do you think there's any such thing as a Jonda cliche (besides the previously mentioned suicide plot)?5/5/2006 #8 Report
Do you think there's any such thing as a Jonda cliche (besides the previously mentioned suicide plot)?
I think that the couple is so uncanon that it is harder for it to develope cliches. Although I do notice in several fics (some good, some bad) where St. John wins Wanda's love by writing books with her in mind as the subject/female lead.
Also some people try and pass it off as too Romyisk except the two can touch. Although in someways the coupling can have similar chemistry, I think that there are different primary issues in the coupling. Trust, abandonment, emotional commitment, attention span/bordom (although I don't know if you can get bored of st. John), etc. While I see Romy as being more about trust and physical commitment.5/6/2006 . Edited 9/27/2006 #9 Report
Oh, I've seen fics where Wanda's the book character like that... And I like playing with trust issues. Hurrah for stupid people!5/6/2006 #10 Report
Once I remember reading a fic where they had the Acolytes all paired up, for the sake of pairing, and they were all going to go clubing. Then the author had them all come out in matching outfits. I about died. It was so bad it was kinda funny. Like this really bad indepentant film I regretably paid five bucks to see last week. But the problem there was that I was in a theater surround by the actors and directors friends and family so I couldn't comment (very loudly anyway) through the thing. I about died. Wow, rereading what I wrote, I apparently almost died twice now. Very resilent I am. Now I'm talking like Yoda. I think that means I should go to bed.5/11/2006 #11 Report
Besides your orange shirt one-shot have, you read any other fics where Wanda is the one to be obsessing over John first? Usually I see John becoming enamored first and then she gets attached. Just wondered how many were out there where it was the other way around.6/10/2006 #12 Report
I don't think I have... my reasoning behind that one was we all know Wanda has a fondness for cute boys and wouldn't be above stalking someone if she thought he was hot. I think that John's the type to get a huge crush on Wanda and be like "OH SNAP! WHATDOIDO?!" when she starts paying attention to him because he is a sexy beast.
...I hate explaining the way I think...6/10/2006 #13 Report
I think there should be more of the Wanda likes John and John has no clue stories.
Oh, I did think of a movie verse story where Wanda has feelings for John and his feelings aren't quite so much yet Ah Never woulda guessed. But the John isn't our funny crazy John so it isn't quite the same.6/10/2006 . Edited 6/10/2006 #14 Report
Those types of stories are incredibly fun to write... mostly because when I tend to write them, they end up angsty. *laughs evilly*6/10/2006 #15 Report
I love Jonda. It an intresting couple and I have some ideas for a Jonda-story, but I have a big problem. I’m from Germany and my abilities in using English for a stories are definitly not good enough. I have published the first chapter in German, but I would bet that nobody will read it because of the language (X:Evo isn’t very populare in Germany (you can watch it every Saturday 5 a clock)). I would try to write it in English, but than I need a Beta, otherwise I will make me look like a fool. Do you know someone?9/18/2006 #16 Report
*raises hand* Me! Me! I already beta "November Rain", and I'd be happy to take on another project... especially one that's Jonda. :D9/18/2006 #17 Report
hey, you wrote "From Under the Cork Tree". It is brilliant, I love it. I just gave the first chapter to someone else, but there will be not just some spelling mistakes. My English is clumsy. So can I also send it to your eMail-address? May you can also tell if its a boring beginnen or something like this?9/18/2006 #18 Report
Hey, you have an excuse. You wouldn't believe the crap people who have English as their *first* language post. *eye twitches*
Yeah, email it to me. And I'd be a pretty slipshod beta if I couldn't tell you what sucks. ;)9/18/2006 #19 Report
For anyone who still reads the forums, there is now a jonda-club on deviantart.com. It was started by Amieva. Here's the URL:
http://www.jonda-club.deviantart.com4/15/2007 #20 Report
Hello people! I know no one has really posted in here in forever, but I was just reading and I wanted to get something off of my chest, if you all don't mind of course.
I picked up something that Goldy said about the clubbing thing, and I just wanted to say that it's something that has happened in A LOT of fics! What is with the clubbing thing anyways? I have never really met a goth chick who likes to go to rap clubs and shake her milkshake thang like a **, you know? I mean, it may be sexy or whatever, but it's not really something I can see Wanda doing. Hell, I just got this really, really scary mental image of Pyro doin' some bad ghetto booty shake thinking about that. That's scary!
LOL, and now I can't stop laughing. Must get back on track...
I also really like the idea of Wanda liking him first - not that John liking her first is bad at all - but just because it's something different, you know? I like the idea of her being drawn to him based on the way he acts or thinks. Because John (I guess, we assume) gets sidetracked, is scatter-brainish (I know that isn't a word, sorry), and is light hearted...a lot of things that Wanda isn't. Because she's so angsty and angry all the time, I like the idea of her being attracted to someone who uses his crazy in a good way (for lack of a better term, lol).
I don't know if any of this made sense, if it didn't just tell me to shut up, or something. lol. But I just wanted to comment :)
Kristen5/21/2007 #21 Report
Which kind of reminds me of what I said initially about Jonda just being tacked on along with Romy and Kiotr... those club fics are usually of that sort. Where John and Wanda are comic relief and occasionally make out.
...And of course Rogue's going, "Oh mah gawd, how am Ah supposed ta make out with mah totally hawt boyfriend if Ah can't touch him?! *ANGST ANGST ANGST*!" And Remy's almost definitely all, "BELLADONNA NOOOOO! I can't marry you! Even though I was in love with you in the comics and I actually considered choosing you over Rogue! Because this is a terrible Romy where Rogue and I have no lives without each other!"
...And Kitty's all, "Like, omigod, I loved Lance, but now I'm all over Poiter! Because he has SMEXY MUSCLES OMG!!!" And Piotr's all, "Da," because most authors seem to think he can't talk.
Yeah, sorry. Reflex. I used to be SUCH a Romy fan, so I read a lot of crap like that (ah, seventh grade...). [/SPAM]5/21/2007 #22 Report
LMAO! Oh god, that was the best thing ever. You are my hero.
That's kind of sad that people just tack pairings together just for the sake of everyone having someone. I used to read every damn ROMY story out there (and I won't lie, it was because of them I accidentally stumbled upon Jonda - thank the heavens if there are some, lol), but I think you can only go so far with the whole powers angst thing. For once I would just like to read Romy when they just *gasp* have fun.
And THAT being said, it's also kind of unfair that John and Wanda are just 'stuck' as comic relief. Because, you know, all romantic couples only laugh, giggle, and make out. I think a good Jonda should have some substance to it, and not just be funny with a tacked on pairing name. So I guess that could - in a sense - be a craptacular kinda, sorta Jonda cliche. All funny, happy rainbows and comic relief.
Because lord only knows that the two of them have enough problems on their own. I don't think it's *that* hard coming up with some angst - or something other than comedy - for them.
Kristen5/21/2007 #23 Report
My GOD. Jonda angst... there is no way to describe a Jonda that is all rainbows and sunshine. People give Rogue all this angst, and sure, she's got a lot of problems- mommy issues (and daddy issues if you read the comics), friend issues, the whole no-touchy thing...
But for crying out loud, Wanda grew up in an ASYLUM. Even if she's got that wiped, she's still way gothier than Rogue. She's a frigging witch! Rogue just wears black and dog collars. And John works for the most evil man on the planet. Imagining he has some sort of character (it's our job to give him one in fan fiction, since canon was never so gracious), he HAS to have guilt issues (or some other kind of issue; if he didn't feel guilty then he must be completely insane and THAT comes with a whole 'nother set of parameters).
Of course, most fanfictions don't think like that. They think, "Oh, John just laughs a lot! He's a real cheery guy who's physically attached to his lighter! And Wanda- yeah, she's just a TON of fun!"
...That wasn't spam for once, since it was actually a rant about them. I think all the terrible Romys are the reason I crossed over into Avatar for a while there... but Zutara is a thousand times worse than Romy, since Zuko actually IS a cocky bastard instead of just acting like one.5/22/2007 #24 Report
Well even after Wanda got wiped, we never seen her happy really...except in No Good Deed at the zoo. She had that funny smirk on her face as she f^$*ed stuff up. Because not only does she have the asylum, there's also the massive load of family angst. And most people seem to forget that she completely lost her entire teenage years...I doubt that would make her just as normal as everyone else. She hasn't been to school, doesn't have friends (I guess the B'hood tries, lol), etc etc. I like the idea of her having fun, of course, but it can't just all be smiles and giggles (God I hate when people write Wanda like that!)
With John, the way I look at it is this: he works for the world's biggest mad man, is happy as hell when he dies (and we never know why), and then is left all alone in a giant metal base in a country he doesn't even belong to! I mean, if the guy was all happy fun and giggles, I'm sure he would've ended up with the X-Men at the end of the series, and not the Brotherhood. And seriously, of all the episodes he *did* appear in, he did his insane psycho cackle like twice. That doesn't make up his entire character, nor does that make him mentally deranged. And you're right, canon makes John so one dimensional its not even funny, so writers are left to fill in the blanks. But you have to hand credit off to people who can give him a balanced personality rather than just rip off his one sided personality from every other damn fanfic. He's probably one of the hardest characters to write, in my opinion.
As for Rogue, she came off as pretty whiny in Evo. I mean, she was better than wussy-whiny Rogue from the movie (don't even get me started on that, lol), but I loved comic Rogue - for the most part. She did still have her trust issues, but she definitely was a hell of a lot more confident and kept her whining to herself. Because even when she was with the b'hood in the comics before the whole Danvers thing, she seemed happy, you know? I mean, angst isn't bad, but it's pretty annoying when that's all she ever does. Evo went angst happy on Rogue. And hell yeah Wanda was more goth than her! Wanda had more of the punk-goth-rebel edge to her, whereas Rogue was more of the new wave-emo-goth. LOL. Bad analogy, but whatever. I agree with what you're saying ;)
Kristen5/22/2007 #25 Report
Rogue was not goth. I'm sorry, but she wore COLOR. A LOT. Lesliweird's drawings explore the gothier side, but in the show, she really wasn't. She smiled too much. And her best friends are a Valley Girl and a prep. (Not that I'm really a defender of the whole goth thing- I think it's way overdone and whatnot...)
Rogue in the comics vs. other!Rogues... don't even get me started. I mean, Rogue was actually EAGER to use her powers for a short period in the comics. And her outfits! How can you look at her and say, "She must be a whiny ** whose only thoughts are about getting control so she can get laid!" It breaks my brain. I do like her redesign for Evo, though, and some of the stuff she did- although she whined a lot, she's not as scared of her powers as Movie!Rogue is and comic!Rogue can get, and she gets some awesome story arcs.
...It also really bugs me when Belladonna is dragged in and is totally onedimensional and just an obstacle between Remy and Rogue. I've done it, but that was back when I actually thought most of the Romys I read were good, so there you go.
Wanda smiles probably all of five times in the series. I mean, come on. She just must be a TOTAL party girl. It's fine to write her like that for a couple of scenes- she IS a teenager, after all, so presumably she can have fun, but it's not her. Most of Wanda is, if not angst, then apathy.
I agree that John is really tricky to write. Like most of the Acolytes, he wasn't fleshed out at ALL, and he only appears in a few episodes anyway. You have to balance the evil, "OMG FIRE!!!1111" side of him with the (presumably) human side (again, unless you're just writing him as a total psycopath)- which is what you have to do with all characters, of course, but John was never GIVEN a human side, so you kind of have to play it by ear. It's why I like writing "From Under the Cork Tree"- there's no plot, so I can just go with different interpretations of both characters and play with stuff.
...5/22/2007 #26 Report
I am a huge Jonda fan, but some of the fics bug me.
The whole "You don't like me -commits suicide-" thing seems to be dug into good enough.
Another thing is when people make Jonda a completely lust thing.
Okay, you're putting a girl who was locked away in an asylum for what, alteast 6 years of her life with a guy who's completely INSANE. I don't think that, even memories given back, she would be all THAT loose. She still seemed pretty reserved after the mind wipe. As for John, I don't think all that many girls would want to randomly sleep with him to get in the habbit. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.
There was one lust-fic that I found where Wanda was trying to gain controll and she realized sex takes a lot of energy and such and would work out, but other than that give them atleast like, 1000 words or something to get going.
lawl, I don't know how to reply to these very well6/25/2007 #27 Report
I think I've read that fic, XD
That bugs me too. Like, it works if she's trying to MAKE it all lust because she's afraid of an emotional connection... but Wanda's not that much of a **, people! When Todd was pretending to be the hot ski instructor, she got all shy. She doesn't know how to handle men or her own emotions.
John lusting after her makes sense- since Wanda is very pretty- but he writes ROMANCE NOVELS. He'll be looking for an emotional connection.
I'd think Wanda'd actually avoid situations like that. A) She's never had any experience with a guy, so while she'd be curious, she'd also be hesitant (see above example), and B) she knows how her powers freak out in situations of strong emotions, so she'd be worried about THAT (hopefully not too much in a "I wanna make out with you but I'll hurt you" way a la damn near EVERY Romy fic).
...See, now, I'm picturing John commenting, "Sex isn't all it's cracked up to be. I have to replace my lightbulbs every time I have Wanda over."6/26/2007 #28 Report
...See, now, I'm picturing John commenting, "Sex isn't all it's cracked up to be. I have to replace my lightbulbs every time I have Wanda over."
*LOL* That's a great line!6/26/2007 #29 Report
Another possibility: Remy eating breakfast when the power goes out. "Dammit, John! Warn us before you have her over!"6/26/2007 #30 Report