We all have our favorite pairings, don't we? I personally love Kalas/Xelha, others around the site are partial to Gibari/Savyna, and even Lyude/Ladekahn seems to have a following. We are dedicated warriors for our causes, right?

Before we start fangirling them to shreds, let's take a collective step back for a moment. As intelligent fanfiction writers, let's stop to consider...

Just how compatible are these couples?

Let's take Kalas and Xelha for example. I'm throroughly convinced that Xelha is the only girl who will make Kalas truly, completely, and utterly happy... but does she benefit from the relationship, too?

Xelha may be there to heal the ache in Kalas' heart, but what about her own? Why do you think she went off to pursue him in the first place? She never really goes into her reasons in the game, except to say, "I wanted to save you." Okay, so she wanted to save him from himself. A kind, selfless act. This is what you call unconditional love, right?

Maybe. Or maybe she was just lonely. Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but maybe she just wanted to find someone to love. I mean, can you imagine growing up the queen of an Ice Nation, secluded from your people, secluded from the world? When Xelha got a glimpse of the outside in her dream about Kalas, do you think that was enough to propel her from Wazn? Maybe she was searching. Maybe she just wanted to connect with somebody.

She meets Kalas, and immediately latches on to him. She gives the relationship her all (stopping short of an actual confession, though, until it doesn't matter anymore) and hopes to give meaning to her existence. And with the release of the Ocean always looming in her future, she probably does just want some kind of meaning. She loves Kalas, even if she can't explain why.

But what happens after everything turns out to be okay in the end? Kalas learns to appreciate her, but what about her feelings? Kalas, for all his cleverness, is still in some ways quite immature and thick-headed. And hurtful and vengeful and insensitive. And unstable. She can help to soothe his wildness, but what if she becomes disillusioned with this kind of give-and-take love? Once Kalas decides to trust someone, then it's pretty much a done deal. So he'll probably love her forever, but what if she gets tired of him...?

Now I'm not saying that Kalas/Xelha is unrealistic or impossible... Xelha may very well be happy catering to Kalas all her life. But is this the best relationship for Xelha's happiness?

Try to look at your own favorite couples this way. Based on their personalities, will they enjoy long-term happiness or only fleeting affairs? Is this what's best for them? Be ruthless in your analysis.

And be realistic.

:D

2/6/2008 #1 Report

Mm...what more can I say? I've never been too good at explaining why I think certain couples work or not or how compatible the two characters are. I agree with everything you have to say about Kalas and Xelha, Fan. As much as I love the pairing and think that they belong together, even I see that things wouldn't be that easy between them.

Maybe. Or maybe she was just lonely. Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but maybe she just wanted to find someone to love. I mean, can you imagine growing up the queen of an Ice Nation, secluded from your people, secluded from the world?

I don't think you're reading too much into it at all (then again, I read too much into things all the time. XD). I was thinking along the same lines. Add that to her mother dying and her being left with the duty of releasing the ocean, and Xelha must have felt incredibly lonely. Also, recall what she said towards the end of the game: "We're two of a kind, you were different". Perhaps she felt drawn to Kalas becuase he is also very different from anyone else in the world.

Sort of an odd reason to fall in love with someone, I suppose.

2/8/2008 #3 Report

And, if Xelha thought she was going to die, she might have wanted to feel love so badly that she almost forced herself into it. She might have felt it, but it might slowly die off as they go on together.

It's strange that a canon couple has this much issues...I never thought about problems with those two, before (other than the fact that I kind of want Xelha and Lyude together, haha).

3/4/2008 #5 Report

I'm not so sure about that, Brenda. Yes, she may have been lonely, but I don't think she wanted to feel love all that badly. I mean, she did have to release the Ocean soon. I don't think she would have fallen in love unless it was truly genuine. It would only hurt her more when the time came if she fell in love with someone.

This one is definitely debatable... whether Xelha forced herself into love or not, I mean. I have to say that I sort of agree with Brenda... but... well, these are my thoughts on the matter.

I really don't know what it would be like to be Xelha; I can only imagine what it would be like to live in one place for seventeen years. (The longest I've ever lived in one place is only four.) After she got to Sadal Suud, she was probably in great culture shock. She had to deal with the heat, the clouds, different culture, dress, ways of speaking... and she had to keep track of Kalas. It was probably all so confusing for her, especially after seeing Melodia put some kind of weird spell on his Guardian Spirit and witnessing deaths of Gram and Leon. But she recognized Kalas from her dream and knew that she had to stay with him. I think it's very possible that while travelling around the world and sensing that the fight with Malpercio and the release of the Ocean was growing near, she realized that she might never be able to see those sights again. It might be the last time she would be able to travel the world, or make new friends. Or feel love, for that matter. She already felt that she had to protect Kalas; I can easily see her developing a desperate kind of love for him. The question is, though, when did she start to feel this love?

I really want to know what you guys think about this... I think it could have been any time from when she first laid eyes on him to when he came back to the party after his betrayal. I say that because the first time she met him was NOT the first time she saw him... previously, she saw him in her dreams and in Moonguile Forest. Her feelings could have turned romantic within that span of time. And it's so completely obvious that she likes Kalas by the time he joins back up. Even Gibari says something. And she blushes. So adorable! But anyways, I personally think that she started loving him after Mira. For one thing, she has a few one-on-one conversations with him there and starts to get closer to him. And for another, during both the disappearance of the End Magnus and the Lava Caves scenes, she probably knows that he's the traitor, but she keeps the knowledge to herself. She tries to hold her faith in him until the end, and afterwards she moves forward with amazing decisiveness. I think this is because she cares about him so much... She doesn't want to let him go... She just wants to live a normal life with him and so she does all she can to get him back and save the world.

Well... the nature of her love for him is probably just a matter of personal opinion. Oh, I don't know. But I do want to know what you guys think about when she fell in love with him. Please. :3

3/8/2008 #7 Report

I agree with Fan. I forgot about the Mira scenes, but thinking back on them now, I remember sensing something that I hadn't noticed between Xelha and Kalas while they were talking on deck. Xelha's sudden drive to protect a boy who she hardly knows is also interesting because you have to wonder what really made her feel that way. Maybe simply being the "protector" of the Ocean and Wazn was too abstract a duty for her and she wanted to find someone who she could be on the same level as and who she could protect because she wanted to, not because she was born to it. There could be many reasons behind this, but I always thought that one of the reasons Xelha refrained from telling her friends about her royal heritage was that she wanted the intimacy that comes with equality, hence it seems as if she wanted to form relationships in order to distance herself from a powerful but ultimately two-dimensional role as the queen of Wazn. Maybe Kalas represents to her what little freedom of choice she has in her life considering the looming and unavoidable destiny that awaits her when everything is said and done. Blah, I'm writing this as I think it, which is why I'm hopping left and right. Screw fatalism, Xelha. Fight the power!

Xelha's a damned interesting character, probably more so than her creators imagined or fans of the game give her credit for. Most of the dismissive responses she gets from gamers probably stems from her rather stereotyped role as the sweet blonde girl who has an epic quest to fulfill, a tragic fate ahead of her, and some sort of romantic connection with the lead male. (Examples: Colette from Tales of Symphonia and Fina from Skies of Arcadia.) I think one of the differences between Xelha and those other girls is that she saved someone who dearly needed saving rather than just allowed herself to be the one in distress all the time. Lloyd (ToS) and Vyse (SoA) were strong-minded heroes who knew what they wanted in life and didn't need too much support from anyone, but with a disturbed and greatly confused character like Kalas, there wasn't any time for Xelha to play the hunted damsel card. She literally pushed her problems and angst-worthy destiny aside so that Kalas, who was of a weaker resolve than she was, could keep his foremost in everyone's mind. If she didn't love him the way she did, she'd be almost a mother to him. I think there's a lot about Xelha that we don't know and we may never know because of this. She has a deep, dark, and naked sort of humanness hidden somewhere in her soul that she is utterly aware of and that she must see in Kalas, hence the "two of a kind" bit. To put it in Angela Carter terms, "if there's a beast in men, it meets it's match in women too," and Kalas and Xelha and perhaps even the Spirit are all wolves in men's skin. It hearkens back to some Freudian principles (the few that seem to have some merit), but I won't go that deep. To reply to Fan's earlier statement, Kalas and Xelha's relationship will probably be stable if Kalas not only learns to appreciate what Xelha's done for him, but learns to see in her the hidden similarities she saw in him, and tries to become what she became to him. I'd like to think he'd be the clever boy that he is and do that, because his happiness depends on it as well as hers, but you never know...

Holy Sh*t, I talk a lot.

6/1/2008 . Edited 6/1/2008 #9 Report

I think the main reason why Baten Kaitos tends to get panned in favor of ToS is because it came out in ToS's shadow and wasn't as hyped, thus fewer people gave it any regard. I'm just lucky I happened to pick it up one day. I don't even remember what got me interested in the first place because I was a huge anime fan at the time (I mean HUGE) and I wasn't used to the "realistic" styles of the characters. That and ToS has better and famous voice actors (liek, OMG it's Robin!), but that never mattered to me. I always tried to give Colette more credit, because she is sweet and good-intentioned, but next to Xelha she's a pansy.

Now, back on topic. How about Gibari/Savyna? (It's you who likes them, right Ruin?) I'll admit that I never thought Gib and Savy's relationship would ever get too romantic and it's hard for me to see them getting married. Savyna would probably be hesitant to suddenly dive into an intimate relationship considering her past and the habits she's probably developed because of them. ("Don't get too close to anyone" is what they usually beat into their heads at those kinds of assassin/Green Beret-esque factions. What happened with you, Sheena? Savyna would've slaughtered that little blonde lamb, and in a shorter amount of time too. But then we wouldn't have much of a story, would we?) But Gibari is also the patient type when it comes to people other than Kalas, and would probably let her move along at her own pace, keeping her company and offering her support when she needed it. Their relationship would develop at a slow, but peaceful rate, in stark contrast to Kalas and Xelha's almost hectic and rocky attempts at romance. If you've ever seen the movie Once (an Irish musical that doesn't act like a musical), it would be like something along those lines. They would be better off as great friends with romantic tones underlying their relationship than an all-out married couple, but it's not like it couldn't happen. These are my opinions, remember? On the plus side, for those of you who may be a bit dissapointed, I always thought that if Savyna were to remain with someone for the rest of her life to keep her company and to help her cope with her past, Gibari would be the perfect guy. He's just a positive and patient person, if not a little gruff at times, which is just what Savyna needs, and, being the laid-back "nothing special to do" guy he is, he'd probably enjoy the company (and being the first to try Savyna's cooking). Savyna's also not the type to complain, so it's not like he will have to put up with her being angsty all the time.

Besides, if you'll allow me to rant a bit more, I'm not of the philosophy that romance has to result from a loving relationship. Though I'm glad that it seems like they did, if Kalas and Xelha never became a couple after the game, I'd still be (mostly) fine, because that's not what's important. I'd rather have the chance to change someone's life for the better and then never see them again than have an empty relationship with no improvement or influence at all. So all those couples people find themselves angry at because they never stayed together, or because one of them died before they could become more involved, it might be better to cool off and think about whether it would be worse if they had never met at all. Not that I'm not hoping for a little Kalas or Xelha sometime in the future, but...

Go watch Harold and Maude--it's one of the best love stories I've ever seen. And if any of you actually listen to me and look it up, I wish I could see the look on your face when you do. :)

(/biased and inflated opinions)

6/3/2008 . Edited 6/3/2008 #11 Report

I still am an anime fan, but I always prefered the BK charater designs. Though I will admit that Zelos' design is extremely original. Who thinks of creating a male character with curly red hair down to his waist and a pink vest? NOT ME.

Yeah, Collete isn't bad, she just gets really, really annoying at times. You have no right to angst about handing over your own life if you're doing it willingly. I liked her a lot better in the second disk where she grew a personality. And yeah, Xelha would WHOOP her. XD

Lawl, Savyna would have killed her for sure. Sheena's a pretty cruddy assasin. It kinda confuses me how people always compare Sheena and Savyna, because Sheena is actually much more like Lyude. Regardless, assasin schools in Mizuho aren't very good at brainwashing, or else Sheena was a reject student of the brainwash program. XD

YES THAT WOULD BE ME. *fangirls* I agree, it's definatly not sterotypical, which is what I like about it. The marrage thing is more of the fact that I see Savyna thinking it totally unnessary, since his word would mean more than a stip of metal and a day in a dress. And yes, she'd definatly be hesitant, but no one else would be willing to work with her on it than the patient and laid-bak Gibari. Plus, physical contact would initially be pretty overwhelming for her, since the last time she got a hug she was about five. Lawl at 'people other than Kalas', I definatly agree, I've always seen him as being protective of her like that, but not overly so. Slow and peaceful are good adjectives for their relationship- there would definatly be road bumps, but it would be a lot steadier than Xelha and Kalas, as you said. Again, of course he would be perfect for that. Plus, on his side, it would probably be hard to go back to being the I-go-my-own-way outcast that he was, since he now has a number of good friends. Granted, he has Reblys, but that's not exactly a friendship as much as compitition. Haha, I need to write a fic about the cooking thing, that's another perk- Gibari has been living on his own for ages, so he'll eat pretty much anything. Not that he's a bad cook, but I'm pretty sure it's not a task he enjoys, either. Agreed about the angst thing as well, he would be the type to see if something's bugging her, and offer to be therre and listen, but not try to pry. That's a lot of what she would admite about him, I think, the fact that he judges people with his own eyes, and respects the value of the past being something you may or may not want to talk about, especially considering his own.

I definatly agree with that, relationships are about growth and learning. Flat relationships that don't change are boring.

For biased options, I like the bias. XDDD You've summed up my BKOTP pretty well. :D

6/4/2008 . Edited 6/4/2008 #13 Report

"Do you sing and dance? :) I thought the romance between a young man (about 20s-ish) and a seventy-nine year old woman would creep out the people who haven't seen it. Once you get to know the characters, it's not as creepy as it once seemed."

A sunflower, Harold? Yeah, when you tell anyone the summary they get all weirded out, haha. Oh! If you liked that movie, try "Wristcutters: A Love Story". You can watch it online, I'll post the link in a second. Just click the bottom right link that says "Watch Full". It comes with Japanese subtitles, haha (oh, it's not illegal since you're not downloading anything. My friend was freaking out about that, haha).

http://watch-movies.net/movies/wristcutters_a_love_story/

Anyways, back to the topic, haha.

-decides she needs ToS, if only to follow conversations- Haha...

Let's see, on Gibari and Savyna...I love the pairing, and I think it works really well. They would progress slowly, but I think it might go a bit faster than you two say because of how she's healed a bit already. I think it would get easier to break through to her as time went on, but it would still take a while. I also think that, while they wouldn'g get married, sex doesn't seem too unbelievable after a while. I could be completely off, though, haha.

6/4/2008 . Edited 6/5/2008 #15 Report

Where's FanFanGirl? It's not like I don't love you or Brenda, Ruin, but Fan's the one who started the topic and I wanted to hear some of her opinions/arguments too (especially about Xelha).

Lawl, as you say, at the plant-killer bit. I love Colette, but she's about as bright as a firefly lost in a snowstorm. It's true that Sheena was brought up that way--I should've remembered that. It's been a while since I've played ToS because I always get into one-sided debates with the Lloyd on my television screen about the existence of altruism and his utter (albeit noble) naivete. Call me cruel, but that son of a gun makes me want to kick a puppy with his "no more sacrifices" speeches. I'll be over here with Kalas, thank you. It's a lot of fun to make him a jerk, but I sometimes felt sorry for the characters I had him blow off (like Raine).

Actually, it is possible to suppress emotion almost entirely--I forget exactly how, but we studied it a bit in Psychology. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't be snapped out of your self-induced emotionlessness like Savyna was.

I always thought they'd stay in Nashira too--it's hard to see Gibari leaving the riverside and Savyna would like the quiet. I remembered that they're heroes now, but that doesn't mean that everyone else would take her often hard demeanor and iffy past lightly. I could imagine that if some random villager spoke to her face to face, especially now that her personal history is famous around the world due to the party's adventures, they would find themselves thinking "She could kill me if she wanted to." Savyna, as warm as she can be at times with the ones she cares for, just has that air about her, probably from years of service in Alfard and what I hear from summaries of BKO is a rather scarring past. Yet again, this is where good ol' Gib comes in. I was thinking of the same thing in terms of conversations--they'd have a ton of them. Conversations are my favorite way of getting a romance or simply a good friendship started--real or fictional. The kinds of relationships that result from those sorts of friendly, platonic interactions are often the most lasting, though they're often not as fiery as the people observing the couple would like. Between the two, sex would be more possible than marriage, simply because I can't see Savyna committing herself to a relationship in such an open, ceremonial way, and Gibari doesn't look like the guy who would be too keen on adding the formal title of "husband" to his name even at the age of thirty-five. Besides, how many of you can see Savyna in a wedding dress or Gibari in a tux?

The Sheena one is the best of Lloyd's disses. :D It's just so cruel and *sshole-ish that it makes me cackle, like when Kalas looted Gram and Leon's bodies. (*sigh*) Maybe I'm the one who needs therapy.

6/4/2008 #17 Report

Portia. Julius Caeser, Shakespeare

Shakespeare...(*foams at the mouth and convulses with sheer joy at the very mention of his name*) I'M NOT WORTHY OH MIGHTY BARD! From memory: To be, or not to be, that is the question: for whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them. To die: to sleep; no more; and by sleep to say we end the heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to; 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; to sleep; perchance to dream. I lurve Hamlet in all his brilliant suicidal emo-ness. I be-eth a Shakespeare fangirl of the craziest kind. Mwahahaha.

(*Ahem*) So, now that we've got Gibari/Savyna mostly settled between the three of us (nobody eles seems to have noticed this topic) how about another pairing? The only other one I openly support that I can think of right now is Mizuti/Kee, but I'll vouch for or argue against any other pairing someone might suggest that's for Eternal Wings. (-Has no idea who Verus is.) We can try Xelha/Lyude or Kalas/Melodia, both of which, in my opinion, have some merit worth arguing for, because Xelha and Lyude get along great as it is, which may have resulted in a crush at one point or another, and I'm 90% certain that Melodia had some kind of love for Kalas and that he probably sensed it.

P.S. I don't think the world sucks, I just like to see it in shades of gray. Lloyd's preaching may be proper for the circumatances his world is currently under, but holding to one extreme will only screw it up again once everything's evened out. Too much of anything will kill you, even in philosophy.

6/5/2008 . Edited 8/5/2008 #19 Report

I really don't think it would work, honestly. I see them as really good friends but nothing more. *shrug*

6/7/2008 #21 Report

I never thought Xelha/Lyude would actually happen either, but it's not impossible. I think the main issue is that she's already so deeply dedicated to Kalas that she behaves as if that slot in her life is already filled up. Lyude is also the kind of guy you would expect to be a bit awkward at romantic overtures and his past haunts him so much already that he may just be glad to have a friend. If their relationship was taken to its furthest, I'd say it would be just a notch below what we said about Savyna and Gibari. Anything beyond that would be the product of circumstances, which is why I still think it's plausible, but it wouldn't happen naturally. Also, people who are very alike in personality and morals like Xelha and Lyude seem to be are more likely to grow close to one another; the "opposites attract" theory is mostly a lie, as proven by science. But Kalas and Xelha are more alike on a deeper level than Lyude and Xelha, which seems to make all the difference.

For further reference, assuming that I can remember all of these correctly, the major factors that contribute to the formation of a relationship are similarity, familiarity (in other words, they spend a lot of time together; remember the Aesop fable about the Fox and the Lion?), and, in coming with the other two, active (positive) involvement in the other person's life. There are others that you're probably thinking of, like trust, but they come after the first have been acquired.

Anyways, as for Kalas/Melodia, I think it would be pretty one-sided. Melodia appeals to all of the things Kalas believes will make him happy (corrupting material shite, like power and new wings), but only make things worse, while Xelha appeals to moral fulfillment (I suppose you could say) which, though it requires more work, will not only make Kalas happier, but will leave him with a clear conscience. Kalas, feeling slightly responsible for her fate, may find himself caring for Melodia's well-being in the end, but there are too many bad memories associated with her. Even if she has mended her ways, it's hard to see him in a relationship with a girl who allowed him to make a terrible mistake. Her love for him, supposing it does exist, would also be more immature than concrete, as if she doesn't know the proper way to support him emotionally. Though they're alike in that they've both suffered for their dealings with the evil god, and they've apparently been in cahoots for a long time, they are on very different moral planes from one another and they're too, shall we say on a light note, self-centered to give each other the support they really need. Melodia may love Kalas because he is close yet distanced enough from her morally to be helpful as well as understanding, but I can't see Kalas being anything more than a brotherly sort to her.

Opinions?

6/9/2008 #23 Report

I was thinking more of in terms of post-game circumstances with Kalas and Melodia, but you're probably right about her in-game feelings for him. The interesting thing is that I never got the vibe that Kalas ever needed her to emotionally fulfill his desire for acceptance even though he was almost desperate for it--he just used her like she used him in order to gain power and a full set of shiny white wings. They probably had a very buisness-like relationship in the first place, but once Melodia hit rock bottom after being swallowed by Malpercio, that's when she would start to look to Kalas in a different manner.

6/9/2008 #25 Report

"Confused? Me too."

Actually, I get it. My two friends (who seem to be completely in love, haha) are COMPLETELY different from each other, but when they talk they just connect on every other level. Like, nobody believed me when I told people they were going out, since it was SOOOO unexpected, but once you see them together you just 'get it'.

Lyude/Mizuti...My favorite character and my most hated. Hm. As much as I hate to stick Lyude with the demented doll, I will admit that it could work once she grew up a bit.

"He'd never be bored. EVER."

Oh man...that sounds almost ominous... XD

6/10/2008 #27 Report

Good Arceus, where do I even begin to comment...

First off, I think you really hit the nail on the head about Kalas/Xelha, Skyraptor. I just love how you said that Xelha "has a deep, dark, and naked sort of humanness hidden somewhere in her soul that she is utterly aware of and that she must see in Kalas, hence the 'two of a kind' bit." I knew there was something else that connected the two, but I wasn't quite sure how to put it. ^_^

As a side note, if you had mentioned the Heroine along with Colette and Fina, Skyraptor, you would've just listed the three characters I have as Xelha's "lookalikes" :P In some ways though, the Heroine is more like Xelha than Fina or Colette (being more than just a damsel in distress for instance. She is kidnapped once, but she allowed herself to in order to save that one city and the Hero).

And after all this Savyna/Gibari talk, I'm really starting to like the pairing now. ^^ I never gave it much thought before, but reading what the rest of you have to say about it is making me see things differently between those two. I think the relationship can work out, though I also agree that they would probably never get married. However, that means I'll have to nickname a male Persian Gibari. I can't imagine Savyna as a Garchomp. *Shot*

As for Lyude/Xelha, I think it also isn't impossible. If Kalas weren't around, then I could see it happening. However, Xelha is dedicated and I there doesn't seem to be any indication that Lyude likes Xelha in that way.

For Kalas/Melodia, I can see where people get it from, but I don't see it happening. Perhaps Melodia has feelings for him, but as Skyraptor said, there would be too many bad memories surrounding her, even if it really wasn't her fault. I don't think she'd be able to support him, not the way Xelha could, anyway.

Lyude/Mizuti? I imagine that's as probable as Lyude/Melodia (or maybe slightly more). :P Not possible now, that's for sure. Maybe once Mizuti mature. And he would certainly never be bored around her. XD

I wished I posted earlier...everything else I wanted to say on these topics has already been said. Everything here is kind of choppy. :P

6/13/2008 #29 Report