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4h c1 Guest
Venyr, your definitely wrong that Fate/extra Archer is a different chatacter to Fate/stay night Archer.

I went through Archer's route in Fate/extra again and the dialog strongly implies that they are the same character, right down to him being a Guardian and having a personal relationship with Saber and Lancer.
21h c1 Guest
You got a few things wrong, venyr.
He still believes in that ideal.
He also doesn't care that the ideal killed him. He died satisfied.
It also wasn't his intention to be a hero.

Shirou Emiya's ideal is a simple thing.
It's just the wish to protect the people in his sight.
As a Guardian he's not even allowed to protect the people in his sight.
Sentenced to an eternal hell where he is forced to go against his philosophy forever.
That's why he wishes he wasn't born.
He wants to commit suicide to atone for that sin.

Hamartia "personified"

He wears a mask over his true self. A defensive façade to hide his sadness.

Sadness born from numerous mistakes.

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20234 (slash)

He has made numerous mistakes.
He had no way to atone for them, except for hating and killing himself.
His hands are covered in blood, and it is something that can never be forgiven.

But still

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20233 (slash)

Those are words of parting.
...The future might change.
If a girl like her stays with Emiya Shirou, the hero Emiya should not be born.
His words contain such hope.

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20145 (slash)

Even if he is called a hero, it doesn't change what he does.
From the beginning, it was not his intention to be a hero.
It's just that he needed the power of a hero in the process.

Still alone.

But he smiles in satisfaction as he lets go of the sword.
As if saying there is nothing to regret if he was able to save everybody in his sight.

“Nothing to regret if he was able to save everybody in his sight.”

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20163 (slash)

The repetition of it makes me so mad that I want to punch him, and it also makes me want to cry.
The reason he was called a hero…
His intention was never revealed to anyone.
Nobody around him knew, and he, the only one who had to know, eventually forgot about it himself.

That is why I shed tears in spite of myself.
To the miracle, that in the long, long path between the start and the goal, where what is right or wrong is not definite…
…He never strayed from his original goal.

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20170 (slash)

He worked hard, put in great effort even though he's an ordinary human being, and he managed a miracle with his own blood.
And his compensation was betrayal and death. It's not even a joke, but he died satisfied.

Lparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20213 (slash)

He was summoned only into these "hells".
In the land of death where the ones he wanted to save were already dead, he killed even more humans.
The boy who stated he just doesn't want to see anyone cry…
…Could only see crying humans forever.
22h c1 venyr4686
Guest, you are right. Only that EMIYA sees the Ideal that he strived to reach and die for, literally, a curse. He realized this as he began to be used as a Counter Guardian. He said cleaning up Humanity's mess, be it criminals, innocent, elderly. He became disillusioned and came to hate it. That's why
he tried to kill a past Emiya Shirou, despite doing so will bear no effect to his current predicament. Emiya Shirou started it all, with his ideals to be A Hero of Justice, he forsake all just to save people. Fujimura, Tohsaka and everyone that he had connected with just to reach that dream, that dream that literally killed him. EMIYA is born.
UBW follows that. Past and Future meet, one at the beginning of his journey, the other tired and disillusioned to his Ideal.

On another note. The Spirit used here is A Nameless Hero. The Nameless Hero uses Emiya Shirou as a template but he is not Emiya of any iteration.
22h c41 venyr4686
Still, A MASTEERRRPIEECE!
I hope you get back on this soon. hHope that you are safe. Be well
5/17 c1 Guest
Guys I have something to say.
I believe most of the misunderstandings about Shirou stem from one thing people are unable to comprehend.

Everything that applies to Shirou applies to Emiya and everything that applies to Emiya applies to Shirou.
Everything that Shirou would do Emiya would do. All their actions would be the same in similar circumstances.
They are the same person, after all.

Somehow though, people get extremely confused on this fact and double down on the need to separate them as much as possible. Even though by separating them, they are actually not separating them at all. Because as said above, their actions would be exactly the same.

I only tried to protect the ones I could see.

That's their mindset. Exactly the same.

Fate/stay night is Shirou Emiya's story.
Emiya is Shirou Emiya.
Fate/stay night is Emiya's story as well.
Everything that applies to Shirou applies to Emiya and everything that applies to Emiya applies to Shirou.

When you read Fate/stay night everything that Shirou does and his policies are to be applied to Emiya.

I've read Fate/stay night many times and I still can't see the difference between Shirou and his heroic spirit self.
5/12 c1 Guest
It's fine man we understood. Mistakes happen.
5/12 c1 Guest
Ahh the lparchive links below are fudged..
Not sure why the L auto corrected to i
Just replace the i with an L and the links should be fine

Damn auto correct!
5/11 c1 Guest
That manga is both beautiful and sad.
It accurately depicts the tragedy of Emiya Shirou.

A tragic hero to the end.

Hamartia.

Iparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20234 (slash)

He has made numerous mistakes.
He had no way to atone for them, except for hating and killing himself.
His hands are covered in blood, and it is something that can never be forgiven.

But still-

Iparchive. org (slash) Fatestay-night (slash) Update%20233 (slash)

Those are words of parting.
...The future might change.
If a girl like her stays with Emiya Shirou, the hero Emiya should not be born.
His words contain such hope.
5/11 c1 Guest
The Bright Sun Brings It To Light

pixiv. net (slash) en (slash) artworks (slash) 61960575

This manga is always beautiful. It also adds to what you guys have been speaking about.
5/9 c1 Guest
So, even if you offer to walk Sakura home, Taiga walks Sakura home instead in the Fate and UBW routes.

Why doesn't she walk Sakura home then in the Heaven's feel divergence? What changes for Taiga to be busy that day? Nothing could have changed between them since the divergence happens 2 days before Saber's summoning. Why wasn't she busy enough to create a divergence? Why isn't every route the Heaven's feel route? What a conundrum.
5/9 c1 Guest
In the Heaven’s Feel route Shirou is shown not to care as much about Saber as he doesn’t tell her to stop fighting as he did in the Fate route after witnessing her defeat by Berserker. This is because the Heaven’s feel route diverges before Saber’s summoning rather than after like in the Fate/UBW routes.

The Heaven’s feel route also diverges not because Shirou decided to walk Sakura home but because Taiga didn’t walk her home instead because she happened to be busy in the heaven’s feel route.
In the Fate and UBW route, if you offer to walk Sakura home, Taiga walks Sakura home instead.
So, Taiga is the person who makes or breaks the Heaven’s Feel route.

The divergence to the Heaven's feel route happens on day one of the prologue.
5/9 c1 Guest
If people call EMIYA childish for venting on himself, then they are calling Shirou childish as well.

Tit for tat.

Issei and Mitsuzuri also mention that Shirou is the sort to lose his temper easily and Shirou doesn't deny it. Also, multiple times Shirou is mentioned to be 'cold' by Issei, Taiga, and Mitsuzuri.
5/9 c1 Guest
EMIYA only drops his vendetta when forced to absolutely, like in HF.

His entire plan is to just vent using Shirou, nothing more. So yes, he would still have his vendetta.

It's kind of weird how people ignore EMIYA blatantly stating he just wants to use Shirou to vent.

His entire plan is a tantrum.

Thank you wellis for your amazing insight!

So people aren't allowed to vent? They're not allowed to have emotions? You gotta ask yourself WHY does EMIYA want to vent?

The answer: Because by becoming Alaya's pawn, he unwillingly became the opposite of the purpose of his existence: To stop tragedies: To save the weak and defeat the strong.

There’s also the fact that the Shirou’s from each ending are called out as having a less than a percent chance of becoming like EMIYA, obviously implying that there are versions that do become like that

Thanks EternalKing for your amazing insight!

Here we go again. Thanks spacebattles for giving me something to do.

"a less than a percent chance of becoming like EMIYA"

Before you say things that can be misunderstood like this, why not have the decency to explain what becoming like EMIYA is. Because if you mean a follower of the cynic philosophy, then Shirou already follows that. Nasu even said that Shirou and EMIYA have similar personalities.

Spoiler alert: All Shirou's are the same. All their actions are the same. The only Shirou truly different from the rest is Mind Of Steel Shirou.
5/9 c8 2Maelaeran
Re-reading this awesome fic again, I find myself focusing more on Cassani's perspective rather than on Shepard's or Shirou's. I love the foreshadowing sprinkled in these chapters, like of Cassani getting crippled, his tech expertise and the little pieces of advice Shirou doled out to him and Shepard and the focus on pragmatism. It makes me wonder that if he had received Shirou's warning about Burnsfeldt together with Shepard, that he might have turned out differently.
5/5 c1 Guest
All of the comments...? Or just the recent wave of mindless Emiya hate?

And how is Emiya a villain? If Emiya is a villain, then is Gilles a saint?

Emiya doesn't have free will as a Guardian. He has no free will being summoned. And when he is summoned, he is similar to a conscious robot. Alaya's will being similar to a Geis on his soul, his very being, and he can't go against it. And besides, when he is summoned as a guardian, everything has already gone to shit anyways. He's summoned to clean up the messes. To clean up the tragedies that have already transpired.

How does that make him a villain?

He most definitely has no free will as a Guardian, as he says himself.

In the end he's most definitely a hero like all other Shirou's. But never is he a villain. At worst he's simply a person put in a shitty situation. Look at Miyuverse Shirou. What can you do.
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