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58m c32 14RedBurningDragon
So what your saying is that mana in this world might have started to decline at a later point in history then in Shirou’s world
7/25 c32 Guest
For the thought experiment about Gaia and mana, perhaps. I think the idea is that the more supernatural a setting is the less he has to recreate his traced NPs from the ground up. Noble Phantasms are essentially crystallised legends after all and fame/belief is an influence in their strength, why wouldn't they be just a little big stronger and easier to use in settings where the supernatural is still going strong compared to the essentially dead modern age? Especially in settings where the cultures he traces his NPs from are still going strong (Greek gods and grecian NPs for example). UBW presumably does the heavy lifting and it's a part about recreating an objects experienced history, so I could see an argument about it being easier in certain settings.

Sure one still probably needs to consider things on a case by case basis per setting (especially for non Earth adjacent settings with no Earth mythological influences), which most people don't think of that deeply, but I could see it having some truth generally speaking.

As a second consideration, even if Shirou himself uses Od instead of mana that's not true of all his NPs. Take Gae Bolg for example, a reason it's so cheap for Lancer to use it because it gathers mana from the surroundings to fuel its attack. Or Balmung that stores energy in the jewel in its hilt. There's an argument for them being easier to use when the fuel they run on is more available, even if Shirou himself doesn't directly use mana.

Lastly would depend on Shirou himself and whether he gets a new body in these settings or if it's equivalent to his old one. Shirou has ridiculous efficiency when it comes to swords, but that's pretty much all he has going for him. Otherwise his circuits are absolute crap and he's only redeemed by having an above average number though he honestly doesn't have enough to offset how crappy his actual circuits are. Like, most people really seem to ignore or be ignorant of this fact (which I suppose isn't really relevant if he sticks to swords). If he gets a new body or is put in a setting where humanity has a higher baseline/potential as well as a different method for using magic then Shirou could become significantly better simply due to his ridiculous efficiency being combined with even just average magical prowess in a world where average is higher than his old definition.
7/25 c32 Guest
If I remember right(and it has been a while)the original argument for Shirou being stronger in an environment with higher mana than the ‘vanilla’ Fate-verse is because his body/circuits would have a much easier time processing mana into Od, similar to how a car engine would get more power/run more smoothly using higher grade fuel. Sorry if that was too wordy.
4h c32 DoctorHayden
... I can't help but wonder what sources you're reading about Gaia and Alaya and Shirou. Because that sounds absolutely nothing like canon- having seen translations of official material, Shirou's Tracing (for example) doesn't work at all like you say it does, and as far as I know Gaia only actively interferes when Reality Marbles and literal cataclysms are an immediate concern. Unless you're talking about *fanon*, in which case you can toss all that out the window, but I don't like a lot of the usual Nasuverse fanon.

Like, all Type-Moon protagonists break the established rules. That's Nasu's calling card. No need to nerf him in ways that don't make any sense with how the guy originally built his character sheet.
7/25 c32 Kuro
I think with shirous magecraft his interaction with the will of gaia is effected more by wither or not what he is traceing already exist or not. i think with shirou its more of 'hey this weapon already exist and this isn't a replica its an attempt to recreate it out of nothing get that shit outta here' a simply rejection of what the world sees as a fake attempting to be the original
7/25 c32 Sapphireweapon12
Yeah, that is true about the Will of Gaia and how it would work. But there actually is a slight correlation between mana levels and ease of use, though. The more mana that's around, the healthier Gaia would be. The healthier Gaia is, the less potent her hatred in general, given said hatred is due to humanity slowly killing her. Obviously though this is nowhere near absolute, and there will definitely be verses where Gaia just wants humans dead for no real reason, but that would be the general link. With that in mind though, this still only can go so far. Even on a world filled with mana that never developed a Will, there would still be limitations simply because of how Magecraft works- even if his Tracing becomes permanent, it doesn't mean anything if he kills himself from Mana Poisoning each time he even tries using it. After all, even if it isn't filled with malice, too much mana would still be lethal in the same way that water acts as a poison after drinking way too much. A good example I read in one of the Fate crossovers was where Shirou tried opening one Circuit in an Age of the Gods world, and had to immediately project a dozen blades to avoid instantly killing himself, and still wound up with swords out of his body and serious circuit damage, entirely because his circuit acted as a suction in a minimal air environment suddenly exposed to an overpressurized area.
7/25 c32 Greymane
About your thoughts on Mana being in higher abundance- in the world of Fate Stay Night, it is repeatedly stated that Gaia hates humanity, and if humanity uses Gaia itself, the mana, interacts with it, it should only be natural that Gaia would make its essence poisonous to humans.
But in a different world? Say for instance that of Fairy Tail, where Mages are abundant? Even if there is a greater consciousness, the fact that there are near zero people put at a disadvantage means that Gaia is either neutral, or directly supportive of Humans, like for instance in Harry Potter where Magic itself makes prophecies and helps the magically inclined directly survive.
The result of being in a different world, where the Vongola rings are part of the system that allows Gaia to survive- would it not make sense then that Gaia would personally empower all that help it?
It makes sense for Shirou then to be at worst neutral to the world, able to harness mana without experiencing mana poisoning, but in interacting with a Vongola ring, perhaps even capable of further filtering mana in greater speed in addition to the power of the dying will flames due to Gaia helping one who seeks to help it.
At least, such is my take on it- observe how the society, humanity interacts with the element in question in said universe. I'm sure Harry Potter trying to use magic in the Nasuverse for instance would very quickly find himself poisoned to a grisly fate, as the world doesn't care to make special exceptions to its rules to an outsider without something affecting the situation- heroic spirit summoning for his case, and for Shirou, a neutral to advantage when inheriting a Ring.

Nasuverse is just harsh on regular humans in its world, my dude.
7/25 c32 Guest
I thought the problem was his projection dispelled be cause they were a contration of mana and Gaia was trying to erase it because it both should not exist and because the world didn't have a high amount of mana for it to exist in a more permanent fashion if there was more mana it would take longer for Gaia to both discover it and to pull it apart
7/25 c32 Type Moon Fan
The reason Tracing is supposed to be stronger in worlds with more Mana is that Od is replenished from the ambient Mana. It's why the go on about Breathing and Walking and how it's important and special. Better quality Mana means better quality Od means stronger projections. Though Babylonia in FGO establishes that if he were just dropped there, it would be more likely to kill him instead, since his body would not be used to the higher concentrations. A soul jump like here though would work.
7/25 c32 Yup
Mana and Od are the same thing, life force energy.

Mana comes from the world, while Od comes from the body.

Mana is more abundant, as the world has more life force than a human.

Magic Circuits convert both eaqualy, and in some cases simultaneously, into Magical Energy, also referred to as Prana.

Some Magi use Mana to start their spells and finish with Od.

More Mana in the environment may cause humans to regain some of the power they had closer to the Age of Gods, like Lancelot and Diarmuid.
7/25 c32 Nameless
man, took you long enough to update the story. I just going through the cross over story of katekyo to see if you have update or not, wishes you can update sooner of the next chapter though. Wishes you good luck and all the best.
21h c27 Michael Morningstar
While I agree that the lightning flame version of love is more of a child like and innocent kind of love I disagree that is less meaningful as in my opinion it has the most meaning and importance as that innocent, unconditional form of love Is so much more pure as it gives a frame of reference for what a hypothetical perfect form of love would look like uncaring of sexual pleasure or appearance, lacking jealousy or any form of ulterior motive it simple See's something and care's whether that be a stray dog, I hurt kitten, a rich old man or a young begger it just says 'hey,I care about this' and isn't that what love is supposed to be?

Lol sorry I didn't mean to go into a deep philosophical rant I just saw what you wrote and got really invested in it but if it's not too much trouble what do you think? I love hearing alternate perspectives like this
7/26 c32 1Sir Cookie
nice, to see this updated. I want to see the reaction to shirou saying no here. With Reborn not saying anything to natsumi, I kind of thought that he was waiting for natsumi to stand up here and say something. though I guess Reborn could have been thinking logically that its better to keep natsumi hidden away as a trump card, Thinking logically is for cowards. I like natsumi. I want her to get in there a kick butt. Also, I really like the vongolo intuition, as a super power. It be real cool
7/26 c32 kkallal
So the biggest thing fueling the whole more mana is better for him is the fact that most of those worlds are either still in either the age of gods or in the close after age of the age of gods the other one is that the world itself does not recognize his trasing as fakes as they my be called the same but they are not the exact same as the versions of that world that is the biggest reasons his tracing is timed since the world recognizes that they are fake and are trying to actively destroy them and he has to constantly fight against the world itself also the whole mana is better for him is based off the fact that most worlds are either designed to have magic accepted by the world or dont have a lot of mana anymore but still had mana and his circuits are made for low mana environments just my thoughts not sure if their true or not but those are my reasons
7/26 c32 4javalalo
Glad to see that you haven't abandoned the story, and ended this chapter in a better way than last chapter cliffhanger.
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