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for High Tide (A Corlys Velaryon SI)

2/28/2024 c55 6Black Magic99
Just as sad and heartbreaking as I imagined. While the war is planned, I think it is critical that the the Ts are seen as the aggressive party, not just by the Vs but all of Westeros.

for the expansion J should frame it in a way that, to the people, the Ts benifit such as, send the Ts more taxes, luxray goods sold in King Landing at a discount, let the people know the generosity of the Vs (sort of like the spices but ramped up). that way when war breaks out and they take away their business, the people blame the Ts they Need the western people on their side and maybe the Ts being unreasonable will force the hand of B and R as well.

make the Ts choice for them where they stand. like J could convince them to go to their sibling's wedding and not take part in their family feud knowing that a paranoid A will insult them for no reason or accuse them of being spies for the Vs.

it would be manipulative of J but all he is doing is showing Band R the other side of their family, the side that cares about power more than anything

lol youre probably way past this point but the theory crafting is fun for me
2/28/2024 c55 Ob
Typical of a self insert story, everything works out for the character.
2/28/2024 c55 2Novashiro
Here we go. Lots of things to tackle in here so lets get started.

Regarding Daeron and Laena, I dont know if you're doing this on purpose but you are making an excellent job of makingbme dislike them more and more. They think like children and refuse to see any complexity in the situation. Not to mention how assymetrical their demands towards Aegon were :
Anything that would put Laena or Daeron at odds with their family is excluded. They are Velaryons first and the only acceptable demands are the ones completely in favor of their family. And let's not forget : lying to the man you want to marry for political advantage is okay.
On the other side Aegon is supposed to fight against his mother, his father, his uncle (who he is squiring for) and most of his family. For what ? His love for Laena and Daeron can only take him so far when House Velaryon refuses to back down on being an independant power. The only deal they were going to accept was one that gave them every attribute of a foreign power (ability to control economy, wage war and conduct diplomacy). Nor ruler in his right mind would accept it, that's just rebellion waiting to happen down the line.

In the end, after the Velaryons conquered Tyrosh this boiled down to a simple question. Can the Velaryons accept being vassals again ? The answer due to Jace's ambitions was always going to be "No". Would the Targaryen accept a foreign power having dragons right next to them ? Also "No". War was inevitable as long as no one backed down from it's position. Simple as that. And between the two, I will always support stability over expansion through wars of personnal ambitions, which is Jace's drove as mentionned during his discussion with his father.

Also this situation is a pain because apart from Aegon, all my favorite characters in this fic are Velaryons AND YOU'RE MAKING ME SUPPORT DAEMON AND GAEL WHICH I DAMN HATE (Fking supremacists...).

Anyway, the family disease of only seeing things from your perspective has well taken root in the next generation of Velaryons.

Reagarding war plans, they are biting way more than they can chew here in my opinion. Chosse 1 or 2 things and do them well rather than trying to do everything. Or considering I'm not on their side, overextand and get crushed quickly to minimise the death toll.

Wondering how the other side will approach this.

Also, damn you are making me feel for Baela. They way the Velaryons are talking about binding her and her sister to their cause through children... fuck that. Its medieval politics but I still hate how they are trying to trick her into fighting her own family...
2/27/2024 c26 Blue-Happens
you tricky fucker. I thought this was one of those no stakes 'fix everything' fics, if better written than many. I do not have the emotional bandwidth to handle actual tragedy in this story you fooled me into being invested in. I have to stop and come back another day. Its good enough to warrant coming back to, to be fair, but woaw you're making some spicy decisions.

good luck with whatever you're doing today.
2/27/2024 c23 Blue-Happens
you're spending so many chapters describing how the king is attempting to really fuck things up further, but because you haven't had a POV in tyrosh yet, i fully believe that things are going unexpectedly well over there. I will be truly surprised if they do go back with their tails between their legs. very invested in the story, even if so much B plot happening at once is boring
2/27/2024 c55 1UzuShiro
pobre jace :(
2/27/2024 c55 Airchampion
I like the plans House Velaryon is making for the Dance, now I want to see House Targaryen plans for it, because while the older members don’t want a war, they will see the writing on the wall and realize that Velaryons are prepare for the possibility of war after they left Driftmark. But if that doesn’t do it then House Velaryon expanding their territory again while House Targaryen is fighting Dorne will definitely do it. I can expect Jace and Luke decision to hide their plans from their wives to backfire or end tragically as after Baela and Rhaena resolve to have both side make peace.
2/27/2024 c1 ReQuien
Quisiera que expongas a Gael y Daemon que pusieron ideas en la mente de Aegon y esto conllevó a una explosión odio,envidia y resentimiento.

Cómo tienes velas de cristal sería buenos usarlas para que Aegon sea infiel a Helaena con prostitutas de feelbottom, cómo lo hizo su padre por casarse con Rea Royce.
2/27/2024 c3 Blue-Happens
NOOO not the east india trading company. I thought he was a cool guy. turns out he's evil
2/27/2024 c55 Tony McNucklz
Best plan is to wait until the Targaryens are all somewhere and attack while they are on the ground. Kill them all in one go. The Red Keep is obvious. Hell, that wedding is an obvious target. Then they leave and let Westeros fall to anarchy. Tywin the fuck up and save a lot of lives, especially their own.

The candles could better be used on Targaryen vassels. Sow discord there between them, stoke old rivalries so the royal family has to worry about domestic disputes. Maybe they can influence some members of the family to blame each other for worsening relations, get Rhaenyra and Halaena questioning their family's creating this conflict to cause Rhaenys and alAegon personal problems. The strategic use of commanding and coordinating the war effort is obvious, but being able to reach across the sea and make trouble for the Targaryens could be quite a coup. Lords mistrustful of their neighbors may not commit as many men if the call to arms comes. With their fewer dragons, being able to see where the Targaryens are would allow the Velaryons to target and send multiple dragons to kill isolated riders. And the knowledge from gogoosos may have information about how dragon vs dragon fighting was done, how smaller fought bigger, how bigger fought more than one smaller dragon, how to prepare and train dragons for dragon fighting, basically there may be some dragon tactics amongst the found knowledge. Anything in that vein just became quite important.

I'd like to see Corlys claim a dragon at some point, and how perfect how it be if he could claim the Cannibal? from a pure narrative perspective, it'd be a delicious declaration of defiance and threat to the Targaryens, and even what kicks off the Dance even if it isn't the Cannibal. Corlys could even decide that it would be better to control when the war kicks off, so offer the provocation when they are ready by claiming a dragon. It seems the Targaryens would likely consider burning high tide with dragons a perfect response. I don't have all the riders and dragons well held in my head, but it would be a glorious middle finger if Corlys claimed Jaeharys the Divider's (the world can't possibly still call the man The Conciliator outside the red keep after all this right?) dragon. That'd be even better than the Cannibal.

Top Dragon. Love it. Corlys certainly aualifies as a Maverick, get that man a dragon please!? Also, racing to Driftmark is a damned good idea. Their dragons will be vastly more in shape than the Targaryens already as shown with the wives dragons flying to tyrosh the first time, with dedicated time pushing like that the Targaryen dragons will be sluggish by comparison.

Well at least Vaemond had sense. Pity Tywinning is beyond their stomachs. Tends to actually save lives in the long run. Ghengis Khan exhibited how being ruthless can actually mathematically be less terrible in the long run by such methods. In world Tywin was unchallenged for decades, and gave the 7 kingdoms i think it was 20 years of prosperity because nobody wanted to piss him off while he had the power of Hand. Terrible yes, but effective in feudal politics. Still, didn't seem likely they'd go that route, but had to be brought up, glad you did and gave defensible reasons for them not doing it instead of like some authors handwaving away an obvious solution.

The dual wedding seperating the loyal is a good move, but it also offers opportunity. They could choose a house that they know is loyal, but isn't well known to be, and have them go to the Targaryen wedding. Plant them in that camp to funnel information or something. Or have a loyal house have an heir pretend to split from his parents wishes by going to the targaryens. something like that.

Oh, Dorne is a good move, especially if they warn Dorne the Targaryens are coming. It would give the Dornish time to prepare and make the invasion all the more costly for the Targaryens. The Iron Born are even better, creating an enemy in the opposite direction from Tyrosh to case problems all over the place. Expanding their own territory makes sense, though that is a move they can't really hide from the Targaryens in their midst. gonna have to handle that.

Baela being pregnant already saves his behind from later accusations, because their first kid was their decision untainted by pokitics, and it stands to reason they'd have more after the first. It's benefits are obvious, but in this case them having kids is conveniently timed rather than him having to betray her trust completely. They had the kid before any of this came to his attention, so I don't really blame him. She may be angry later but her children will be a priority to her when the time comes. Still, poor guy.

Nice naming choice, it was indeed apropos.
2/27/2024 c55 5MrKlortho
Man, that got angsty at the end! Good chapter, if a little exposition heavy.

I understand why they’re leaving their wives in the dark, but it just seems potentially short sighted. Jace is right in that the women will hate them down the road when the deception is discovered, but why do they assume having children will magically fix the problem and bring them to the Velaryon side regardless?

In using Viserra as their example, they miss two crucial points: first, Viserra chose to be full Velaryon, she wasn’t duped into it, and second, Viserra did not have to actively fight her kin, at least until after she was fully integrated into her new family.

Why not instead try and bring them to their side with full-ish transparency? You may need to “lie with the truth”, e.g. paint Targaryen activity much worse than it is, but that seems a more stable move to make than trying to keep them in the dark for literal decades. If Baela and Rhaena can be made to see how “unreasonable” the Targaryen’s are being, and them at they are literally threatening the lives of their husbands’ family, that’s incredibly powerful!

This whole “pump babies in them” strategy seems like a potentially major blunder and oversimplification of a complex issue.
2/26/2024 c54 6Black Magic99
although the dance is confirmed, how it is fought and WHY the castle burns is not. once acceptance sets in, they can begin planning.

instead of thinking of their seat as their home, instead it would be smart to think of it as a staging ground. an important one but ultimately not necessarily for their survival as a house, their actions in essos made that possible.

they should keep the peace (maybe be obnoxious about how much they Dont want to fight) but be ready to abandon westeros completely when the time comes.

as long as they are not the aggressors and leave the continent when the fighting breaks out, (maybe burn the castle themselves as a" F youthen the people would likely be against what could be see as a targaryen war of aggression
2/23/2024 c54 2Maternova
Aegon's suggestion of house-splitting is actually quite reasonable. Come to think of it, would it be House Vance was split in two by one wary King of the Rivers in a similar fashion? Wary of the power of the greatest Andal conqueror's descendants?
Besides, Aegon didn't deny the resulting branches of the family any contact. With royal permission, House Velaryon of Driftmark could have been an ally to House Velaryon of Tyrosh in its wars. And Laena's reaction is just really painted by her family's tension with the Targs by this point. The Targs were still digesting the Conqueror's super windfall of Westeros after three generations, why should they be worried about dragonlords running amok in the Free Cities, whose people have a record of killing dragonlords? Surely it would be better for the Iron Throne to let Jace and Luke be killed in a conquest of, say, Lys, than have total war in Westeros.
As for why not using cannons of all things to hit a dragon ... yes, of course the warfare 15th-century cannons were most suited to executing was shooting high-speed flying targets that could no-sell super crossbow shots so long as it didn't hit their eyes. Seriously, with their generally younger dragons, House Velaryon is the one more vulnerable to cannon warfare - if their dragons land on the ground and the cannons have a clear line of fire. Cannon would be honestly useless in dragon warfare.
And I am really more interested in what role magic would play in this Dance than the family squabbles by this point. I expected a Dance ever since Corlys decided to be a madman and conquer Tyrosh, but I didn't expect a windfall of usable magic from Gogossos of all places. Not like the Martin would ever let us see the island in the main story ... probably.
2/19/2024 c54 NoodleBoss
Honestly the Sea horses/Dragons fucked up big time, and one of the things they could do is just move to Essos and be done with Westeros, granted that has it's own problems, but one of the best way's to avoid a fight is not being there.
2/19/2024 c54 2Novashiro
I hate for this to happen but with the way things were going it was the only logical resolution.

I agree with another reviewer on this : the Velaryons are disingenuous and its annoying how the act like victims.
At least they should own it : they have strung house Targaryen along for years with promises of peace and unity but at the end of the day, the only thing that mattered was their rise and nothing else. Not peace, not friendship, not even Laena's feelings could stand in the way of their desire for an empire.

At the end of the day, House Targaryen is royalty. Overambitious vassals cant be allowed to expand like that unless you want to be attacked and replaced later (see the countless wars between medieval kings and their ambitious vassals in europe.)

Corlys and Viserra are annoying. Not because of whi they are, they are pretty likable, but because they should have known better and because they had every tool at their disposal to avoid this.

After jaehaerys' mistake they could have kept the governorship while playing politics with Aemon and Baelon to get the title when Aemon was king (he would have given it along with Aegon and Laena's marriage). After Tyrosh they could have stayed in King's Landing longer to reach a compromise (time has a way to deal with those things) instead of going back to driftmark. They also could have included Aegon and Aemon in their discussions and plans (at least not lied to him) for the basilisk isles and made this a joint campaign (which would have also given Aegon a lot of influence in King's Landing when he returned with part of the treasure, enough for a lot of things such as forcing a betrothal...). They could have waited until AFTER Aegon and Laena were married for their expansion. They could have included the Targaryens as a whole in such plans to plan the conquest of the three daughters together.
So many options, the Velaryons had...

So many ways to avoid this that were ignored. Because the crux of the matter is they see themselves as above their liege lords. Corlys and more importantly Jace have major main character syndrome, simple as that. They make their decisions as if the world should bend to their wills.
Except that's not the situation. House Targaryen is way more powerful than them at the moment and could easily wipe them out if they decided to (wondering why they wont do it immediatly honestly considering how things have devolved).

House Targaryen have a lot of issues but at the moment they are the main reason for stability in Westeros and their rule has been very peaceful and prosperous (Apart for the Maegor episode). The Velaryons have also benefitted from the Targaryen's rise in power (which allowed Corlys the power to do what he did) but they failed to grasp the powerdynamic in Westeros and saw themselves as above politics, now the entirety of Westeros and the narrow sea will pay the price in blood.

Because this is on them, Jaehaerys made a mistake out of fear but the ones who escalated everything up to this point were the Velaryons. The Targaryens made an offer for reconciliation (a generous one), the Velaryons said no and asked something ridiculous akin to secession in return which was (of course) refused. Then, instead of spending time negociating, they left and didnt come back until the marriage of Jace and Baela where Corlys casually threatened the heir to the throne before breaking faith and expanding during negociations about the validity of said expansion...

House Targaryen behaved like proud and threatened monarchs (which they were) and started a fire out of fear. House Velaryon refused any possibility to extinguish it and proceeded to THROW GASOLINE ON IT, confirming the worst suspicions possible at the worst time !

This wasnt inevitable. It was only inevitable if the Velaryons refused to back down on their desire for an empire even temporarily.
Now they made their bed, and the entire continent has to lie in it. Worst case scenario for everyone...
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