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8/9/2021 c4 2jelpy1
Enjoying this story. Sad it is an orphan as it had great promise.
11/12/2020 c4 chris141linardi
great story!
very good picture of the war and specially love the robb and jeyne (criminally ignored) chapters, very good portrayal of both.
10/27/2020 c4 38jean d'arc
Yeah... It is kind of short and maybe a bit of a filler... But if this is what you needed to get your ideas flowing, and you made an effort to give us an update, then, that's good enough for me :)
And many things did happen. I liked Jeyne's feelings of uncertainty (especially given the lack of information).

To the guest who gave a long ass reply to my long ass comment: you're absolutely right! :)
You bring up very good points and I completely agree. The thing is that this fandom is too quick to judge in hindsight (especially against Catelyn for some reason). The deal was the best they could get at the time and given the circumstances. If they hadn't been betrayed and had arrived in Kings on time and freed Ned, she would have been the hero... Also, if they hadn't been in such a hurry or such a precarious position, they would have certainly made a better deal...
Thanks!
9/17/2020 c3 Guest
TL;DR: it's not the betrothal that's the problem; it's who she was betrothed TOO. :)
9/17/2020 c3 Guest
jean d'arc:

"In reply to the other reviewer: as for Arya being betrothed to the Frey boy, what's so wrng with it? I never understood why people compain about Arya's betrothal. That was the norm of the times. Children (both girls and boys) didn't get to choose who they married. They didn't marry for love, they married to make alliances or bring benefits to their families. And they never saw that as a burden, but as something that was normal. Whether she wanted to or not, Arya would have been betrothed eventually. In this case she was betrothed to get a huge benefit that would help her family free their father and rescue both Aya and Sansa. It didn't work that way in the end. But the betrothal was normal. And now, after Robb snubbed the Frey, thay hve no choice but to honor Arya's betrothal."

I can't speak for the other reviewer, but I'll give you my opinion on why it wasn't a satisfactory trade...you're correct that in those times, betrothals were the norm and there was absolutely no way Arya was going to get to adulthood without one, whether Ned was alive to make it for her or Catelyn/Robb did. I totally agree with you on that and it's frustrating when other fans of the books/show always say something like, "well Arya just wasn't the type to be married off." No, she's not; however, in those times she would have been SOL!

So my issue isn't with the fact that she was betrothed or even the fact that she was betrothed to a Frey. My issue is that the betrothal in question wasn't strategically sound. I mean, Walder Frey has literally dozens of children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so on. A good betrothal would have resulted in a good trade-off for both parties in question-and Robb's betrothal did do that! The Starks and the North gained a quick crossing to join the war speedily AND they got Frey soldiers and Frey bannermen out of it. And Walder Frey got a betrothal that would have had one of his daughters/granddaughters as the Lady of the future Warden of the North, the largest kingdom in Westeros. See what I mean? It's equal...balanced. Robb desperately needs to cross the bridge in order to join the war and save his father and sisters. Walder will have his blood INHERITING one of the most important kingdoms. Both get something they really want.

But the betrothal between Arya and Elmar? It wasn't balanced. It was shoddily done and not logical for the reasons WHY betrothals were made in the first place in those times. A balanced trade would have been Robb and the Northern army crossing the Twins in return for Arya being betrothed to someone who could stand to inherit the Twins. Literally, Elmar is a nonentity. His mother was Annara Faring (sp?) and she was literally the SEVENTH of Walder's many wives. And Elmar wasn't even the firstborn son of Walder and Annara...he's seriously the FOURTH son. Not including Walder & Annara's daughters, before Elmar comes Wendel, Colmar, and Waltyr. And that's just in that seventh marriage! Elmar is Walder's twenty-second born son...and succession doesn't go down the line of sons once the older sons start having kids of their own. Rickon Stark wouldn't inherit before Robb's own sons. So Elmar isn't even twenty-second in line for the Twins...nope, he's even further back when you account for the fact that succession starts with Lord Walder's first-born son Stevron Frey. And then Stevron has four children including three sons (Ryman, Aegon, & Walton). Ignoring Aegon & Walton's children, let's focus just on Ryman's children because they would come first in the succession:

Ryman has sons Edwyn, Walder, & Petyr Frey. Edwyn has a single daughter, Walda. She is before her uncle "Black Walder" in the succession; however, it's debatable whether or not the Twins would actually go to her as a female. So let's skip to Ryman's sons Walder & Petyr. Black Walder refuses to marry, but he apparently has a habit of sleeping with his family's wives...so it's RUMORED that his children are actually Walda (the supposed daughter of Edwyn), Perra Frey (daughter of Mylenda Caron), & all four of Annara Faring's children...and yes, one of those is Elmar. So if that's true, Elmar isn't actually the twenty-second son of Lord Walder; he's actually the fourth-born bastard son of Black Walder and wouldn't be in line to inherit anyway. But we'll ignore Black Walder's supposed children because officially they are not his children. So let's go back to Ryman's thrid-born son, Petyr Frey: he has ONE daughter, Perra, allegedly Black Walder's daughter which would make her a bastard.

So, aside from (officially) Walda Frey, daughter of Edwyn Frey & granddaughter of Ryman Frey, let's move down the line to the next Freys that could inherit the lordship and the Twins. Again, this is still Stevron's line: Aegon "Jinglebell" does not have any heirs. Then there is his daughter Maegelle who married a Vance but I don't think they would inherit.

So the next in line is Stevron's son Walton. THIS RIGHT HERE would have been Arya's best option! Walton Frey was born to Stevron & is his first son with Lady Marsella Waynwood (a Vale house). Walton then marries Lady Deana Hardying (also a Vale house) and has three children: Steffon, "Fair" Walda that everyone thinks Robb should have married), & Bryan. Steffon was born somewhere between 260-280 AC so likely would have been too old for Arya unless we knew he has born in 280, making him only nine years older than her. He has no wife/children. Anyway, since we DON'T know, let's move onto Walton's second son, Bryan. He was born somewhere between 281-291, making him more age-appropriate. Bryan was the correct option for Arya. Aside from being the closest-in-line male heir who stands to inherit the lordship and is also close to Arya's age, he has connections to the Vale with the Waynwoods and Hardyings. And there's the fact that this line comes from Perra Royce (also an important Vale house)...considering everyone knows that Sweetrobin is sickly and Harrold Hardying is already openly called Harry the Heir in anticipation of him inheriting the Eyrie and the Lord Paramountcy of the Vale, this marriage between Arya and Bryan Frey would have been a good move. It would have brought closer ties to the Vale (which Cat and Robb didn't yet know wouldn't come to war because of Lysa) AND it would have given Arya the best possible chance to become Lady Frey of the Twins. As it stands, if she marries Elmar, she will NEVER become Lady of the Twins and she'll be just another random lady married in but with zero power...literally the only way to make that slightly more bearable would be for Robb to bring Arya and Elmar to live in Winterfell and have children there, which is what Tywin did for his sister Genna and Emmon Frey and their children. Do you see? There is zero benefit in the Elmar betrothal. If Lord Walder had offered Bryan Frey instead, it would have been a balanced trade and we would have known he was serious about the alliance.

I know Robb and Catelyn were rushed and scared and didn't have a Frey family tree in front of them to consult from, but at the very least they should have bothered to ASK for a Frey closer to the top of the succession for Arya. They might not have realized how far down Elmar was...but I can tell you that Lord Walder most certainly did...and it was an insult that he offered a son (who might actually be a bastard great-grandson) who is so far down the line of succession that he will literally NEVER stand to inherit the Twins. For the daughter of the Warden of the North, the Starks who are one of the Great Houses, yes, this is indeed an insult. It's like when Tywin refused the betrothals between Oberyn and Cersei and Elia and Jaime and offered the Princess Martell his dwarf son Tyrion for Elia instead. Blatant insult. There's no way around it.

As a side note, if Arya had been betrothed to Bryan Frey (or his older brother Steffon), her children would have been ahead of Emmon & Genna Frey's children in the succession because Emmon is Stevron's younger brother. And if Tywin hasn't figured out a way to selectively kill off Freys until Emmon inherits by now, you know it's not possible...because Genna being married to Emmon is an embarrassment for Tywin...at least if he inherited the Twins, Genna could have been Lady of her own castle. But no.

Again, I understand that Robb and Catelyn were under a lot of stress at the time, but this just kind of makes me think that Cat valued Arya less than Sansa...if it were Sansa's betrothal she had been negotiating with Walder, she definitely would have tried to get her the most important heir who was likely to inherit. With Arya, it's either she just doesn't bother to ask how far down in the succession Elmar is (and Arya's children will be) OR she decides to accept the slight Walder is giving her (likely because he feels like Hoster Tully has always slighted him and Catelyn is the closest possible surrogate at the time). I don't know...I think Cat and Robb did the best they could under terrible circumstances so I don't really view it as a failing on their part, but I am POSITIVE that Lord Walder meant Elmar as a slight and that he probably did to get even with Hoster.

Actually, I just had another thought- MAYBE Catelyn made that betrothal because she was sure that it would fall through by the end of the war? It's POSSIBLE that Cat deliberately accepted such a lowly Frey because she knew Arya...she might have known that Arya was willful enough to run away or to make a public enough refusal that it would cause embarrassment...and if Arya were betrothed to one of Walder's more direct heirs, Arya breaking the pact would have been a bigger deal? Cat might have been thinking that Elmar was low enough on the totem pole that if Arya refused, Lord Walder might overlook the insult? If that's the case, then I actually think it was smart of Catelyn...I mean, Cat knows how willful Arya was even when they were living at Winterfell under Ned's and Cat's rules. Cat might have been thinking that the time away would make her even more willful and unruly, making the breaking of the pact almost a certainty? Or I dunno, maybe Cat was hoping that by the end of the war, Elmar might have been killed so Arya wouldn't have had to worry about it anyway?

Wow, sorry for the novel! I always have fun looking into the marriages in the family tree...it makes me a bit sad because you see so many houses wedding their daughters into such a family that is universally viewed with such derision in Westeros...and they're not just small houses! They're important houses! Some, like House Royce, have even married into the Freys multiple times! And as a house that views itself as so honorable, it seems a bit hypocritical that they would just get rid of their daughters to a house like that where the daughters have literally no chance of being the lady of their own keep. Robb and Cat have war and fear for their family as an excuse, but the Royces? Ick!
9/12/2020 c3 SortofGuest
Hopefully Arya runs away, her family is completely undeserving of her loyalty. And she is definetly being too complacent even given the stated reasons.
9/9/2020 c3 jean d'arc
Good chapter!
Thanks
8/31/2020 c2 Guest
And if Cat had been a bit smarter she would not have given old Walder so much for so little.! They should have taken the Twins and executed the old bastard !
8/31/2020 c2 Guest
Big Huge mistake putting a Frey in as Lord of Darry ! Those people will lose all loyalty and respect for Robb's brain power if he puts a Frey in charge.! The entire Riverlands Hates Freys !
8/30/2020 c1 Guest
Of course Arya being at the Crossing means she can find oit the truth about Roose and Walder too.!
8/26/2020 c2 jean d'arc
Sounds interesting :)
And no Red Wedding! That's always good.

In reply to the other reviewer: as for Arya being betrothed to the Frey boy, what's so wrng with it? I never understood why people compain about Arya's betrothal. That was the norm of the times. Children (both girls and boys) didn't get to choose who they married. They didn't marry for love, they married to make alliances or bring benefits to their families. And they never saw that as a burden, but as something that was normal. Whether she wanted to or not, Arya would have been betrothed eventually. In this case she was betrothed to get a huge benefit that would help her family free their father and rescue both Aya and Sansa. It didn't work that way in the end. But the betrothal was normal. And now, after Robb snubbed the Frey, thay hve no choice but to honor Arya's betrothal.
8/26/2020 c2 SerRobertofboarisland
Good story so far! Keep it up
8/26/2020 c2 SortofGuest
Robb still broke his word, and Arya did not even act that demure toward the royal family but here she does not even complain when it is suddenly dropped on her that she will be forced to marry that little pinworm, and that after all she has done to get back to her family they are immediately abandoning her at the crossing, supposedly for safety even though Catelyn is also leaving.
8/25/2020 c1 SortofGuest
Robb and Catelyn really are pieces of shit, forcing Arya to eventually marry Elmar when Robb could not go through with his own marriage, and Arya is acting way to complacent.

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