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for Midgard: Titans Academy

11/15/2023 c7 kashriramji
I have to admit I'm not a major expert about Mantra
To oversimplify (and based solely of memory) in Malibu comics there is an ancient wizard (who I don't remember the name of) fighting some 90s looking warlock. To aid him in his battle he has warriors that serve him with his magics ensuring that they last the centuries in there battle against the bad guy. The person who would become known as Mantra has the ability where every time he dies the wizard sticks there soul in some random guy with him possessing them and running out on those people lives to rejoin the fight. Cut to the present day (aka the 90's) and the bad guy manages to set a trap (I think he turns one of the warriors to his side?) and manages to kill all of the warriors and gravely wound the wizard with the wizard using the last of his powers to move Mantra's soul to a new body but by what seems like accident they end up in the body of a woman with immense magical potential. With Mantra basically taking up the duty of fighting the warlock in her masters place. And that's all in issue 1 and 2.

With some viewing it and the character of Mantra as one of the first transgender superheroes though I personally don't think that it's an accurate representation of transgender people but it was the 90s so what do you expect.
11/15/2023 c6 kashriramji
On the topic of nations. Asia would be vastly different. India has supernatural creature who would not take kindly to the mughals or Britain. Due to its size india would have the largest supernatural population only rivalled by China. Who knows maybe the mughals would be repelled by the various supernaturals. Britain could still colonise india with its mages.

Mages would have a frosty relationship with each other. The highest risk for a mage is another mage. After all when you have the power the only one to fear is one with the others.

I feel like it would be an interesting case where you'd actually end up with something that results in something akin to an 'Amazon' situation. As in, you have dozens upon dozens smaller magical cliques and existent organizations that do actually historically exist within these assorted nations, both throughout the Asian region. So, both within India, China, etc, you have a number of notable existent powers that have some relation to the existing historical kingdoms of the region itself, each operating by way of the blessing of their own religious figures or through support of some specific magical teaching that is integrated into their society. The only reason they're acknowledged as falling under the idea of being 'Amazonian Societies' is not because they are like the Amazons, but rather because of Wonder Woman's impact on global affairs meaning that the term is used to label these different smaller cultures and organizations, regardless of their own history or beliefs.

Beyond that, I feel that it would be important to consider that things aren't isolated within their own individual bubbles as they are within the comics. If we had a subspecies of humans that could thrive in underwater conditions, it would be entirely understandable that said group would spread to encompass the entirety of Earth's oceans across history. You could have groups that are technically a population of 'Atlanteans' who might be descendent from Alexander the Great's expeditions across the Middle East becoming a settled group within the Gulf of Aden or the Red Sea, coming into conflict with earlier settlers who moved into the indian ocean and along the northeastern coastline of Africa. You could have populations of Intelligent Apes living within the Himalayan Mountains giving further life to the rumours of a Yeti civilization, while simultaneously being in conflict with actual yetis.

It's easy to imagine that each of these regions would have their own separate, dominant magical and religious traditions, but I think it's important to also consider the historical impact of having each of these aspects of a wider DC universe existing as important historical factors.

Furthermore, on the topic of mages and what can threaten them, it leads me to actually think about mankind of a species on a galactic level. We know that, compared to a number of alien species, even within the Solar System, that mankind is much weaker and lacking in seemingly more powerful abilities when compared to those of other notable alien species. The Martians alone can fly, shapeshift, go intangible, read minds and more, so what does mankind offer in comparison evolutionarily?

My thoughts, and argument, is that mankind has the benefit of sheer adaptability and mutability in the face of any potential environmental conditions. This does continue on with what I mentioned previously about how the dominate, 'baseline' version of mankind is the most dominant purely because 'bog-standard' humans are capable of changing in relation to their environments unlike other, more specialized versions. Taking this a step further, and to compare mankind to the rest of the various alien species, the idea that mankind's specialty from an evolutionary perspective is that any of their species can potentially be mutated or adapted to directly match some of the more ridiculously powerful species is an interesting one.

Unlike the Kryptonians, humans can potentially be just as strong but lacking the weakness to kryptonite. Unlike Tamaraneans, humans can develop powerful ranged blaster powers but lack the need to undergo a threatening chrysalis process to do so. Unlike Thanagarians, humans can develop flight without needing wings to carry them. I can go on, by my point is that I've been thinking that humanity, in comparison to other species, has the benefit of being able to adapt on a much greater level than any other alien species can, to the threats of their environment. Almost like Parademons, in a way.

Anyway, further discussion topics to consider for those interested in this idea:
If Atlanteans existed, what kind of different nations and groups would they form across the entirety of earth's oceans. And, considering we're aiming to integrate this in a vaguely realistic manner, what would the world look like if people knew Atlanteans, or people who lived beneath the oceans, existed? Would there be trade, violence or political interactions?

How would other isolated communities, blessed by their own local gods, adapt to the wider world as the passage of time rolls on and Earth heads towards the 'modern day' equivalent? Would we see even more heroes in the style of Wonder Woman coming about, or would her existence be an isolated phenomenon? Would these smaller magical cities and communities even stay hidden over the course of history to begin with, and why might they?

What roll might the Justice League actually play on an international level? We know it's a functionary part of the United Nations in many iterations of the DC Universe, but might it have been established by Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman following WW2 to give the United Nations more 'bite'? Could it be the successor to a previous attempt by the League of Nations, or even earlier?

How might Intersolar relations develop? If we go by the modern iteration that the Martians and Mankind only started interacting during the post-WW2 era, how might the two different species of the Solar System interact? How might this have impacted the space race, or even the Cold War to know that there was a third power outside of the Western and Eastern Blocs? Would the Green Lanterns play a role in attempting to curb the potential threat of nuclear war?

Would we see an earlier development of organizationally precursors to the Cadmus project? Would these grow out of existing independent groups like previously established metahuman strains or magical organizations dedicated to specific nations or regions? Would the advent of the 'modern day' result in a booming growth of these kinds of groups, or would some nations have already developed these kinds of projects decades ago (Such as various imperial ambitions being supported by specific metahuman or magical groups)?
Feel free to discuss any ideas you feel might fit this discussion.
11/15/2023 c5 kashriramji
When would the Superheroes of this setting Debut? Would it be in WWII, or would it be in modern times? If we go in WWII I would want the modern day to be more of an AU

Yeah, I agree with this.

If you ask me, here is how it should go:

Superman makes his first appearance on April 18, 1938. He actually succeeds at ending WW2 back in 1943, after he fights several Nazi superweapons. He also gets help from Wonder Woman and from the other members of the Justice Society of America. Several of his "what if" adventures(kidnaping Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Hirohito and putting all of them before the UN to be judged for their crimes, taking down the Klan, etc) all of them happened here.

In this era, other heroes include the the first Batman(Bruce Wayne), as well as Wonder Woman, and the golden age versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, and the other members of the Justice Society. Other characters of note here will be Captain Marvel, a well as the original Blue Beetle.

Superman also voices support for various Social Democrat, Georgist, Syndicalist, and Democratic Socialist movements across the world, but outside of this, he does not do much to force his policies on anybody, only working to protect innocents from tyrants, and from oppression. As a result, the cold war is basically not a thing, and the insane amount of coups, far right dictatorships, and socialist dictatorships that plagued the second half of the 20th century are not a thing

Superman also dies for real in 1993, against Doomsday.

Technology also advances more, with interactions with Atlantis and Themyscira resulting in new advanced technology coming on the mainland. Other factors include Superman and Martian Manhunter helping with some extremely high level stuff.
11/15/2023 c4 kashriramji
Personally, I think we need to make it a little bit different, and take some things from mythology into consideration. Here is my opinion on the species:

1. Homo sapiens sapiens. Us. Normal humans.
2. Homo aquasapiens. My opinion is to take the original mythical claim of the kings of Atlantis being descended from Poseidon, and make it the case here. The Atlanteans and meerpeople are the result of humans with descent from Poseidon, giving them the abilities of sea creatures, and the lower levels of superhuman abilities, as well as the occasional presence of hydrokinesis.
3. The Amazons. The result of magical abilities, given to them by their gods, that also changed their DNA, giving them their superhuman strength, toughness and speed over the years.
4. Controversial opinion, but I would like to make Meta humans and magicians...not exactly different species, and more the result of bizarre combinations of various recessive genes.

Gorilla Gorilla Sapiens: Your standard intelligent Gorillas with acknowledgement that quite a few of them are prone to develop psychic abilities.

I think...this is underestimating the necessary changes to make gorillas sapient. I think we should change their name to Gorilla sapiens in this case, and make them as distinct from normal gorillas, as humans are from Chimps.

- Impact of magic: How magic has been codified in multiple different ways and, with the ongoing development and modernization of mankind, how it has been both integrated and yet remained functionally apart from the modern world.

That is interesting, because historically a lot of cultures accepted magic, and even studied it in a scientific way. Newton himself was an alchemist, and occultist, the various courts in Europe had court astronomers and gave support to alchemists, alchemy and occultism were studied in parts of the Islamic world, and China was famous for alchemy.

So if magic is a thing, then changes are it will be understood, and actually change history.

- Divinity and the impact of religion: The existence of multiple pantheons of different gods from different religious backgrounds is a well known and long established fundamental of the universe. This prompts the question of how said gods interact in the modern day, and the different competing viewpoints and impact of religion on modern society within the DC universe.

There are several options, all of whom will be present:

1. Calling the gods false, or demons.
2. Accepting them as real, and as powerful, but not as gods. Popular in both the followers of the Abrahamic faiths in this world, and among a lot of atheists. Easy to do when you have Superman, Wonderwoman, the Flash and Martian Manhunter present.

- Aliens in the solar system: How would mankind react to Mars and the Martian inhabitants? While I personally am extremely bias towards the Young Justice depiction of Mars and it's inhabitants, taking into account how mankind reacts to and interacts with it's various neighbours within the solar system would be fascinating, and that's not even accounting for other organizations like Darkseid or the Green Lanterns.

A complete change of the way humans see themselves.

Plus, massive paranoia. The martians are(in DC) a species that are universally capable of shapeshifting, invisibility, mind reading, intangibility, levitation, and have superhuman physical capabilities on top of that.
11/15/2023 c3 kashriramji
I feel like that it'd be a half and half approach towards the inclusion and impact. I feel like a good halfway point between it being a consistent aspect of the setting while at the same time maintaining the underlying mystery of the subject matter would be to keep it at the incredible rarity of those who can actually engage with magic while also recognizing that their are multiple organizations who very specifically engage with magic as an existing subject matter.

So you'd have it being a recognized fact that magic actually exists, but at the same time it being such a rare thing to encounter means that the average person doesn't actually know much about how magic functions beyond "Yeah, magic is real but idk how it works." On top of that, having there be notable powers such as the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos governing magic outside of nationalized usage means that many nations would have some form of magicians on the payroll, but nobody would really have any major form of monopoly thanks to their being so many different cosmic beings and other powers directly influencing how it functions. Certainly, you'd have nations like England holding a much greater percentage and feeling greater knock-on effects of having different magical sub-realms connected to different gods or mythologies, but those wouldn't allow for direct domination through magic.

But then again, I wouldn't put it past their being a much greater level of casual knowledge over time through general investigation into how magic functions and impacts the wider world, even if it isn't used in any great quantities. So you'd have modern organizations like Star Labs or the like building on a legacy of investigation into how magic works from multiple different previous organizations over the centuries. Mostly because I feel like it'd be understandable that humanity in general has just as much knowledge as groups like the Atlanteans, but lacking the central power of Atlantis has to have a dedicated magical influence.

Oh absolutely, but I think it wouldn't be as bad considering that there was probably a lot of differences in it's utilization thanks to it being a think people could actually do, alongside the presence of actual different deities allowing the usage of divine patronage and the like to provide a source of magical power. But then again, demons and other darker powers also exist, so whether said witch hunters were actually right in their efforts would be far more debatable.
Click to shrink...
The magic community are known to an extent ( magic heros, villain) but the rest is not, lot of them are underground or like to hang in discreet places like the Oblivious Bar. Also magical villains get a suppressor collar made for them from various magic research organizations, but do they have a separate prison or just go to Belle Reve? ( I think some where down the line there at least a teenager threatening to curse someone and it was taken seriously ). Since magic can be learn so do you think how many tried to self-taught it?

On Atlantis I the Atlantean had a lot to say about ocean pollution, oil mining and whatever the fuck they done to Antarctic polar. Like it a whole can or worms. Sooner or later somebody gonna sell Atlantean techs on black market, it inevitable.

About deities I like to think the world become somewhat polylithic ( Christianity made said something like God created other deities), ppl probably gonna be more cautious when visiting holy site cause you don't know who watching ( trashing of temple and shire are greatly reduced since no one want to pissed of a god ).
11/15/2023 c2 kashriramji
Damn this a nice idea. So on magic I think the world would treat it like other unknowns, fear, curiosity or simply think it cool. On scientific views scientist would want an explanation of how magic actually work or some can be skeptics about it. This create a whole new research field ( maybe organization too).

I feel like that it'd be a half and half approach towards the inclusion and impact. I feel like a good halfway point between it being a consistent aspect of the setting while at the same time maintaining the underlying mystery of the subject matter would be to keep it at the incredible rarity of those who can actually engage with magic while also recognizing that their are multiple organizations who very specifically engage with magic as an existing subject matter.

So you'd have it being a recognized fact that magic actually exists, but at the same time it being such a rare thing to encounter means that the average person doesn't actually know much about how magic functions beyond "Yeah, magic is real but idk how it works." On top of that, having there be notable powers such as the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos governing magic outside of nationalized usage means that many nations would have some form of magicians on the payroll, but nobody would really have any major form of monopoly thanks to their being so many different cosmic beings and other powers directly influencing how it functions. Certainly, you'd have nations like England holding a much greater percentage and feeling greater knock-on effects of having different magical sub-realms connected to different gods or mythologies, but those wouldn't allow for direct domination through magic.

But then again, I wouldn't put it past their being a much greater level of casual knowledge over time through general investigation into how magic functions and impacts the wider world, even if it isn't used in any great quantities. So you'd have modern organizations like Star Labs or the like building on a legacy of investigation into how magic works from multiple different previous organizations over the centuries. Mostly because I feel like it'd be understandable that humanity in general has just as much knowledge as groups like the Atlanteans, but lacking the central power of Atlantis has to have a dedicated magical influence.
11/15/2023 c1 kashriramji
The aim of this thread is to take a long-running series, in this case the DC comic universe, and attempt to take the majority of different concepts and ideas and then codify them into a consistent depiction of the universe that would allow for an overall universe that would allow every part of it's structure to function consistently and, hopefully, logically.

This means that all aspects of the setting, ranging from the inclusion of Magic and different Gods, to differences in evolution and other such ideas, to how different governments and alien species function, are all open for discussion. However, I would also ask that considering and discussing these ideas should be done in a relatively logical, and preferably non-controversial manner.

Topics for discussion to consider:
- Evolutionary history of mankind: How Humans, Magical humans, Atlanteans and Metahumans are consistent branches of mankind that have both co-existed and been a known factor for most of modern history. While different groups such as the Amazonians are technically separated from mankind, their difference is by way of divine blessing and influence of magic, essentially making them a secondary group within the magical category of mankind, the big four that are consistently mentioned in DC Comics are the four types of man:
Homo Sapiens Sapiens: The common human, most branch of humanity as a species on the planet Earth.
Homo Sapiens Magi: A distinct subspecies of humanity, with the inherit ability to do magic and connect to the different magical realms and powers.
Homo Sapiens Aqua: The various underwater branches of mankind, including merpeople fallen under this category.
Homo Sapiens Meta: A wide reaching branch that covers genetic mutation and change within different humans, and comes from a variety of sources.
It's important to note that, within the various depictions of mankind within the DC universe, it appears that the different evolutionary tracks have been far more radical and capable in comparison to what we understand within the real world. The DC universe is home to an incredibly wide reaching array of different evolutionary sections of mankind, all of which have adapted to different ecological and environmental pressures placed on them, and have often pushed their own development along through internal, directed development in the case of the Atlanteans. However, we cannot deny the fundamental pressure of evolution, which means we need to consider exactly why Homo Sapiens has remained the dominant group across the planet.

I personally would suggest that within a consistent universe, this is primarily due to the adaptability of humanity in the face of so many different environmental hazards. Each of the different types of 'man' are offshoots from the original branch of Homo Sapiens, and this raw adaptability remains something that all humankind remains capable, moreso than any of the specifically developed sub-branches of mankind.

To provide an example to this idea: A Homo Sapiens Sapiens does not have the intrinsic ability to manipulate the different types of magical energy found across the planet, whereas the genetic off-shoot of the Homo Sapiens Magi does. However, whereas a Homo Sapiens Magi has their body specifically adapted to and is in some ways more reliant on the usage of different magical sources to support themselves, a Homo Sapiens Sapiens can have their body physically adapt and develop to utilize magical energy sources over time through constant exposure and further intelligent choices to engage with the assorted material around magic.

Another example would be the difference in raw strength and ability to withstand pressure that would be between a standard Homo Sapiens Sapiens and a Homo Sapiens Aqua, with the Atlantean variants of mankind being far more adapt at managing the crushing depth at the lower ocean levels, through both being physically incredibly resilient to pressure but also physically very strong, but the standard human variant being ability to gradually have their body adapt and develop to those undersea conditions over time and when supported with equipment while also being capable of the inverse, whereas the majority of Atlantean variants simply cannot exist outside of those pressurized conditions without specific equipment to support their bodies.

Beyond that, I would argue that each of these different groups have existed, and been a known minority in existence, not accounting for how they might have been historically treated. The existence of people such as Centaurs and the like would still be a consistent group even into the modern day, if only in extremely minority groups, and falling under the labelling system as Homo Sapiens Meta, much as other different groups such as the Tretch might. It is important to consider how these groups might different over time however, and whether they can be considered offshoot sub-branches of mankind mainly might come down to the sheer amount of them and the ease of categorizing them out of the need for simplicity.

There might be multiple communities of centaurs, or minotaurs, or other mythical beings in existence across the planet, but their lack of numbers and influence most likely means they fall under the generalized categorization of Homo Sapiens Meta, whereas all of the different sub-branches of the different Atlantean peoples exist in such great numbers and influential communities, alongside playing much greater roles in terms of political power and impact on the world, that they have to be considered their own separate group. While this isn't ideal, it does allow for the simplification of categorization and an easy method of breaking down mankind into different groups to allow for simpler classification.

- Other sentient species: Here we need to acknowledge that the DC universe is host to a lot of dumb yet cool things. For example, there is an entire city of super-intelligent gorillas living in Africa. Now, I get that if we're attempting to consider that in a modern context, it would be completely dumb and raises a number of uncomfortable questions, but for the sake of cleaving close to the presented universe in a unified, integrated depiction, we have to take these and include them in a coherent manner. Now, while the impact of such a political state on the history of the world is likely to be drastic in the extreme and completely alter how we view historical narrative such as the colonization of Africa, that's a question to consider in relation to history rather than simply how other sentient species exist.

Which, ironically, is easy enough because the only other native sentient species on earth that's consistently depicted is the intelligent Gorillas. Ergo, I would argue that much like the existence of multiple sub-branches of mankind exist to fill out the different reasons for why superpeople exist, I would also argue that we would need to consider how having a species of intelligent Gorillas would also develop. Thankfully, building on the consistent ideas of the established DC universe presents us with only really two variants that I could see existing within an integrated DC universe:
Gorilla Gorilla Sapiens: Your standard intelligent Gorillas with acknowledgement that quite a few of them are prone to develop psychic abilities.
Gorilla Gorilla Magi: An excuse to explain how we can have the existence of creatures such as Yeti or Trolls across the planet, while also making the existence of an entirely other sentient species on the planet more impactful than "A city of hyper-intelligent Psychic Gorillas plotting evil deeds."

- Impact of magic: How magic has been codified in multiple different ways and, with the ongoing development and modernization of mankind, how it has been both integrated and yet remained functionally apart from the modern world.

- Divinity and the impact of religion: The existence of multiple pantheons of different gods from different religious backgrounds is a well known and long established fundamental of the universe. This prompts the question of how said gods interact in the modern day, and the different competing viewpoints and impact of religion on modern society within the DC universe.

- Different countries or how different nations might have formed: The potential impact of existing nations such as the different political situation in the middle east or the existence of superpowered individuals could radically change how history has developed, even if the overall nature of the world is much the same as it is in comparison to our own world's political situation. It could be that some nations or groups played bigger roles than others, for example the potential to have the existence of Atlantis as a geopolitical entity fundamentally altering the global realpolitik and how international trade functions.

- Aliens in the solar system: How would mankind react to Mars and the Martian inhabitants? While I personally am extremely bias towards the Young Justice depiction of Mars and it's inhabitants, taking into account how mankind reacts to and interacts with it's various neighbours within the solar system would be fascinating, and that's not even accounting for other organizations like Darkseid or the Green Lanterns.

These are some of the questions I've been thinking about, in how they'd change how the world functioned. I am sure there are many more aspects to consider.

So, the question is, how do you think a properly integrated world might account for all the different aspects of the setting existing in a realistic, integrated manner?

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