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for Beginning a New Path

5/28 c4 just4anime
Was not expecting that to happen to Harry...The smut I mean.
5/22 c114 Moral Conundrum
You used the live action remake. WHY did you use the live action remake? WHY IN THE WORLD would ANYONE want to use the live action remake!?

You chose... poorly.
4/19 c114 1goblin81
Another great chapter in a great story.
4/10 c114 Guest
funny how youve been writing for 10 years yet every single story since has been as dogshit as your first one
4/9 c114 ILoveGeorgeEads
it was great.
4/6 c1 1aPancake
Seen this story updated for years, and I'm going to take my first crack at it. Good vibes going into it.
4/4 c19 Guest
When they swear by the Styx even the gods must keep their word

Like humans the Olympians were capable of good and bad deeds

But it could be argued their immortality and massive power (and the same could be said of superheroes) disconnects them from humanity

if a man was caught peeping on a bathing goddess she might blind him reflexively on instinct but if it was an accident she may then give him the gift of prophesy

To those who worshiped them remember they are from a far more brutal time where thinking the next village over as subhuman was par for the course

In actual mythology

The Olympians were like humans in that they ran the gamut from bad to good to indifferent to somewhere in between it could be said their immortality and massive power disconnects them from humanity

The Olympians were very much do as we say not as we do types, Zeus was a freaking rapist but he was also god of law, justice, and civilization in general and he DOES punish the truly vile, even if he has hypocrisy issues (liars, oath breaker, incest), one could argue that gods should ONLY interfere with the most horrible taboo breakers and/or extreme circumstances

Athena as a goddess of intelligence, she will help people as long as they are following the rules and/or striving to right injustice. But breaking them means she will allow no mercy, she punished her own high priestess Medusa for losing her virginity to Poseidon. Regardless of whether it was rape or consensual, Medusa's vow had been broken, and there had to be a punishment.

Ares in his Roman incarnation he is pictured as the god of farming as well as war. The connection being that war was in the mind of early Romans(and early Greeks) turf fighting between farmers. Thus in the Roman interpretation Mars was a god of citizen-soldiers defending their crops, and the Greek Ares was a god of the horrors of war. Ares always supported his children and tried to protect them (namely the Amazons) Yes, he goes on bloodthirsty killing sprees during wartime (he's basically a stupid thug even if he does know everything about armed and unarmed combat Ares personifies war as bloodshed, violence and destruction, and Athena is the goddess of generals, battle tactics and strategies) but he is quite devoted to his mother He loved Hera, as he saved her from getting raped by two giants at the cost of being imprisoned in a jar, and various children unlike a lot of the other gods except Hermes Athenians explained the name of the Areopagus by saying the first trial there was when Poseidon prosecuted Ares for murder, over the death of his son Alirrothios. Ares was acquitted on the defense that he was protecting his daughter Alkippe from being raped by Alirrothios

Orion at least tries to be god of JUST war violence only when necessary

Kidnapping seducing your future wife was just something done it those times or at least if the gods did it it's okay (they were very much do as we say not as we do types like everyone capable of good and bad deeds were good bad and somewhere in between) their relationship was remarkably functional

Asclepius stole his subjects and he asked Zeus to put an end to it not his fault Zeus decided to set him on fire

Not his fault Orpheus did the one thing he told him NOT to do

Theseus and Pirithous narcissistic as only Greek heroes can be decided they both deserve to marry a daughter of Zeus Theseus chose Helen of Troy twelve at the time and keep her until she's old enough and Pirithous chose Persephone and Hades had snakes fuse them to chairs and sick the Furies on them

Hades loves his wife does his job keeps his word and named his giant three headed hell hound Spot

There are older secular superior moral codes and laws

Why do so many have such low standards for a deity poverty, disease, disaster, not eating all the junk food you want and look like an action figure post scarcity for all mankind who wants it (those who want their own lives to be hard and difficult and dangerous have no right to force that on anyone else) can't talk to everyone at once it was someone who said someone from their congregation said some priest said some prophet said some god wants or doesn't want something

Compassion for the sake of compassion

If the values of charity, mercy, honor, duty, and justice aren't enough than knowing you are morally superior to a supernatural, abusive, bully, tyrant is worth an eternity of torment would know if groveling were insincere

Pampered or enchained a slave is slave what is worth honor pride and shame

Indoctrinated and brainwashed as a child no logic critical thinking and rational thought no evidence or data that can be observed, measured, and quantified

Rights are for all regardless of color, creed including none, and gender because otherwise they aren't rights just privilege respect the rights of everyone else or you don't have any

Rights are laws which exist to bring prosperity to those under them

There is little besides wishful thinking to suggest that that the universe is ruled by a just and all-powerful God who rewards good and punishes evil. The world is unjust and unfair, so bad things will always happen to good people for no reason at all. indicate that the human condition is that we want reasons for our suffering and create elaborate religious or metaphysical belief systems that get in the way of taking responsibility for our own lives and absolve us of the responsibility of trying to change it. However, there Anti-Nihilist message to the story saying that people can make a difference. There were a lot of bad things people are unable to prevent, but some saved people and changed lives because some had the courage to stand up to villains that no one else would oppose. Even if who recognizes that you're weak and fragile decides that by going home and fighting your own small battle you'll be able to change something.

even the smallest of your actions can have an unpredictable effect on other people, and that progress that you have spent your entire life building can be ruined if you take one reckless action without thinking of the consequences

No man is an island. Even if you think that relying on others will make you vulnerable, and that you're tough enough to take care of yourself, there will always be challenges that are too much to handle without help

"Revenge is nothing but the place where men who can't deal with sadness go." go on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge against in retaliation really left on that rampage because he couldn't bear to face the grief of everything he had lost. Instead, drenched himself in hatred and violence, and while The Power of Hate made him strong for a time, it left him as a wreck of a man and caused the only precious thing he had left to slip through his fingers. Redeem by forgetting revenge and protect instead of Avenge

Religious fanaticism cannot save people or defeat evil, and a dogmatic religion will either be used as a cover for corruption for charlatans manipulate or exploit or lead to the methods of violence, intimidation, and so on. Insane or ignorant/incompetent genuinely believe in misguided delusions lead followers to doom it's okay to believe in the supernatural, but you have to be open minded about it and see the world beyond ours for what it really is instead of what dogma tells you to see.

People can decide to change themselves, no matter who they were before or what they've done in the past. Running away from problems and drenching yourself in revenge and hate, to the point where you almost become as big a monster as the ones you're fighting. But realize how actions have distanced him from someone and put them in mortal danger, drop everything including revenge in order to rescue them before it's too late. From that point on feel the burden of responsibility and is tortured by the lingering consequences of past actions, but those who witness his gradual transformation can attest how much he's changed through sheer willpower and become a far more admirable person. after spending whole life being protected and cared for by others rise to the challenge of being responsible for someone else. Even an evil being who seemingly has no redeeming qualities can do something which—even if it's far too late to make up for their crimes or save them from damnation—can still express their humanity through a last act that will change how people remember them. Cast away humanity and morality long ago, and could have kept on living if he had sacrificed a loved one, but instead consigned to eternal torment out of love for someone else. All of this doesn't change the fact that a lot of characters in the story stick to their evil ways until the very end, and the story focuses heavily on the Freudian Excuse and cruel circumstances that would drive a person to villainy, but there's an implication that whatever the circumstances, doing evil is always on some level a real choice.

There could be a huge difference between what God is and what people want or believe Him to be.

Everything you do has an effect on you or your surroundings. Everything.

Fighting destiny is all well and good, but even a Determinator isn't assured to win in the end. It can go either way. Fate isn't always victorious but neither is willpower, no matter how strong.

There is no external reward for good actions. The only reason to do the right thing is because you choose to. Do not expect the universe to give you a pat on the head, or even refrain from kicking your ass. Likewise, there is no external punishment for wrong actions. The only reason not to screw your neighbor in the most horrific way possible is because you choose not to. (Interestingly, The Bible expressed much the same sentiment in Matthew, often quoted as "the sun shines on the righteous and unrighteous alike.")

Humanity is responsible for its own suffering

You are welcome to live and die by whatever ideals you want but you can't force others to or infringe on another's health or wealth or argue against facts of science and history

Two wolves a lamb voting on whether the wolves eat the lamb is not democracy or equality it's tyranny of the masses

"I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect I never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."
— Lord Vetinari, Unseen Academicals

"Compassion? Empathy towards species outside your own? Ethics? Morals? Laws? Those are things CIVILIZATION invented! You ponies brought them into being when you decided 'I will care about more than whether I live and reproduce.' You decided some things were greater then your own life! You decided some things were greater than passing off GENETIC legacies. You learned what love was when Celestia taught you how to care about something other than your DNA. The natural world? When did you last see parasprites and cockatrices have political debates? Nature's balance doesn't TOLERATE kindness Flutter-girl. The sick and hurt you care for? You go AGAINST nature's will when you step in and tend to them and heal them. They're SUPPOSED to die to make way for the superior survivors. But because you have an empathy sphere larger than the sun, you step in, you CHEAT Fluttershy, you break Darwin The Dragon's law and allow the 'weak' to thrive not making room for the 'strong.' Kindness goes AGAINST nature Fluttershy! You're as unnatural as me."
— Fluttercruel, Pony POV Series

This is maybe 30 wasps against 30,000 bees and the 30,000 bees do not stand a chance.
Behold the hornets systematically seize them with huge, wicked jaws and literally f*ing cut them apart, one by one by one by f*ing one. In three hours, there are piles of limbs and heads and just fucking bits of things that could possibly have been alive at one point, and the hornets have stormed the hive and flown away with all the bee's children. Who will then be eaten.
Nature is f*ing hardcore
—"The 5 Most Horrifying Bugs in the World"

Selesnya thinks nature is a pretty plaything. True nature would rip their faces off and wear their skins as trophies.
—Disciple of the Old Ways
Magic: The Gathering

The Witch of Life is said to be a goddess of nature, adaptation, and natural cycles. She presides over her namesake in all its manifestations. She is a god of love, in a way, but not a god of mercy.
If she loves the deer as she would her own child, then the wolf which tears at its flesh is her child as well. Smallpox was her child, and the furor with which humankind fought and destroyed it was a part of the natural world as well, and she smiled upon the both of them and pronounced it all good.
— Guide to the Zodiac
a Homestuck fic

"It is because Nature is ruthless, hideous, and cruel beyond belief that it was necessary to invent civilisation. One thinks of wild animals as savage, but the fiercest of them begins to look almost domesticated when one considers the viciousness required of a survivor in the sea; as for the insects, their lives are sustained only by intricate processes of fantastic horror. There is no conception more fallacious than the sense of cosiness implied by 'Mother Nature.' Each species must strive to survive, and that will do, by every means in its power, however foul—unless the instinct to survive is weakened by conflict with another instinct."
— Gordon Zellaby, The Midwich Cuckoos

The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
— Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden

Who trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation's final law?
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed?
Alfred Tennyson, In Memoriam A. H. H.

"In sober truth, nearly all the things which men are hanged or imprisoned for doing to one another are nature's every-day performances. Killing, the most criminal act recognised by human laws, Nature does once to every being that lives; and, in a large proportion of cases, after protracted tortures such as only the greatest monsters whom we read of ever purposely inflicted on their living fellow creatures."
John Stuart Mill, On Nature

"And what haunts me, is that in all the faces of all the bears that Treadwell ever filmed, I discover no kinship, no understanding, no mercy. I see only the overwhelming indifference of nature. To me, there is no such thing as a secret world of the bears. And this blank stare speaks only of a half-bored interest in food."
— Werner Herzog, Grizzly Man

"Nature here is vile and base. I wouldn't see anything erotical here. I would see fornication and asphyxiation and choking and fighting for survival and growing and just rotting away. Of course, there's a lot of misery. But it is the same misery that is all around us. The trees here are in misery, and the birds are in misery. I don't think they sing, they just screech in pain."
— Werner Herzog, Burden of Dreams

You think civilization is some horrible, polluting human invention that separates us from the state of nature. But civilization doesn't separate us from nature, Ted. Civilization protects us from nature. Because what you see right now, all around you -(referring to a tribe of cannibals)- this is nature.
— Kenner, State of Fear

I just don't understand this idea that nature is some entity that wants all of us to live long and prosper but humans are corrupting and perverting it into this horrible abomination that we have these days. It's so incredibly sad. Every day you walk outside and you're not mauled by an animal? That is you defying nature's course. Every day a baby is born without polio, that is you slapping nature in the face."
4/4 c18 Guest
If the Phoenix didn't get Hope why wouldn't it just burn the Earth to ashes, it's been doing that across the universe

Hope spent her entire life being hunted and told she must survive to save mutantkind

Did they ever say if Hope was influencing people on purpose or if she was it was for the survival of mutantkind

Scott's apparent goal actually fairly simple: Protect the new emerging mutants and make up for killing Xavier. Uncanny X-Men, basically, comes down to him and his team finding new mutants who's powers are emerging, bursting in big-damn-heroes style, defend them from any violent trigger-happy police officers, then get the kid out of there. For some reason though they keep calling it a 'revolution', which seems to be why everyone's so scared he's going to mess things up for everyone, but he's not actually done anything 'revolutionary'. Hell, last issue of Consequences had him outright say what they're doing is nothing new.

It was Wolverine who kept X-Force going when Scott felt it was no longer necessary

what really, really bugs me about Jason Aaron's writing is that he always does the whole 'Cyclops vs Wolverine' argument thing, and when he does, he actually gives Cyclops a lot of good arguments and generally makes him the most agreeable character in the situation, but then it’s clear from how he writes it is that we're not supposed to agree with him. Especially since we're supposed to agree with Wolverine, and all his arguments are utter BS. I mean...
-"It sure looked like you." And it sure looked like YOU, Logan, all the times you've killed innocent people or tried to kill innocents while possessed. Hell, he cut off a guy's arm because he got pissed at him, not to mention all the times he tried to kill innocent or mostly innocent people 'for the greater good' or whatever, as noted before.

-"You killed one and teamed up with the other." 'The other' who surrendered and asked to join their side, before saving Kitty from her space bullet. Magneto has done terrible, terrible things. So have you Logan. He wants to make up for those terrible things. Just like you Logan. Stop judging him, and judging Cyke for giving him the chance to. You didn't have much problem with him doing that when you were on his side. It still bugs me how everyone keeps judging Cyke because he gave Magneto another chance to do good.

-"Jean knew who she was and what she'd done." After the original Dark Phoenix saga, the first time they saw Jean after that mess they accepted her with open arms. When she was going crazy, they tried to calm her down. Wolverine's first response to seeing Cyclops start going Dark Phoenix was to just kill him, and the Avengers and other X-Men let him. Jean also felt bad for what she did, as does Cyclops here, but Jean (or the Phoenix copy of her) killed billions of innocent sentient beings while Cyke killed one fairly douchey man with a lot of douchey secrets, and while they still all love Xavier, that doesn't change the fact that they're holding Cyke to a very unfair double standard. Sure, he's not the 'sweet innocent soul' Jean was, and he's done a lot of bad things himself, but that still doesn't mean he deserves to be held accountable for every last bad thing he did while possessed by a cosmic entity he was not supposed to control.

-"you put your people on a path to war." ...No, no he didn't. The world around him did. Mutants were reduced to less than a hundred in their numbers, they had genocidal mad-men gunning for them at every side, every day they faced extinction, to the point that when he only lost ONE teammate, he could call that day a good one since he didn't lose more. They were in the $#!tter, and like it or not, they had to take off the kiddy gloves and strike back or die horribly. Despite all these things coming at them though, Cyke held the group together and took down what was coming at them; his actions weren't pretty, but he kept them alive. Be grateful, you self-righteous sack of $#!t.

-"I know I made my own mistakes, but I'm trying to do good." So, it’s OK for you to seek redemption, but while Cyke tries to make up for his mistakes by saving mutants from people who'd hurt them, no, he's gone too far and he needs to pay? Seriously Logan, do you not see why that's so hypocritical? It’s nice you're trying to do good, but instead of being a baby, let Cyke do good with you.
-"When I go down, I go down alone, but when you go down you'll take us all with you." Who, exactly, is currently teaching a school? A proper school, with tons of students? Who is currently the one in charge of the big team of X-Men? Logan, if you 'go down', there's a good chance it'd result in all those kids going down too. Cyke, if he goes down, really, all it'd do is turn him into a martyr since all these in-universe liberal kids love him.

Logan seems to be continently forgetting the bus loads of students that got torched back in the New 'Mutants: Childhood's. No mutant school's an island.

"You don't hate yourself nearly enough." Uh, yes he does. It’s pretty much a character trait that he doesn't think very highly of himself, and since Xavier's death he's pretty much suicidal. Hell, does he not remember that Cyclops wanted him to kill him? You should know more than anyone how much Cyclops hates himself, and frankly, it’s disgusting to tell someone they should hate themselves, especially when you know they have mental issues.

-"These days you're too much like me." How? When Logan did bad things, especially when he killed people, it was usually because he had serious issues controlling his behavior. He sometimes took lives because he felt it was needed, but that's actually fairly rare, and more often than not, it was just because he was feeling fairly violent at the moment. In short, he's an animal. Cyclops, on the other hand, when he did bad things or took lives, it was because he believed that if he didn't, people would die. Given that he ended up being right most of those times, he has a point. Not to mention, this 'Don't be like me, I'm a bad person' BS is, again, incredibly hypocritical thinking. If you're such a bad person to be like, Logan, then why are you head mastering a school? If being 'like you' makes him such a bad fit for leader of the X-Men, why are YOU, of all people, the one currently doing that?

I know, it’s kind of pathetic to basically argue with a fictional character, but it really bugs me that we're supposed to agree with Logan here.

the one thing he would change if he could do it over again would be him dying in Xavier's place.

As for giving up the Phoenix, considering what his teammates did with the power that wouldn't have been a good idea. At the very least Emma and Namor would have done much worse

I'll never buy that Scott wanted to kill Xavier. He has been very angry at him at times. Doesn't mean he'd want him dead.

Colossus put crabs legs on whales. I somehow doubt that was a manifestation of his deepest desires

Asteroid M(s) made of Krakoa- Savageland(s), Danger/Cerebra, (Zero-Techno-organic-Technoarchy, Phalanx like Barbuda Builders

Initially Wolverine was a rebel who often got himself into trouble and had to learn to respect Cyclops' leadership, but as fans of his got promoted into being his writers, and his problems with Cyke grew to the point he's shunned him and taken leadership of the 'real' X-Men team. We're supposed to take Wolverine's side in their arguments, given he usually gets the last word in and he is seen as 'the good guy', despite him instigating most of their arguments, and that had they gone with his idea everything would have been screwed. In Schism, when Cyclops argues they stand and fight while he wants to run away to protect the younger students, he starts a physical fight that wastes time until the Sentinel is there, and he continues the fight while also fighting off the Sentinel, before eventually going with Cyclops' plan, which ends up being the right call. He splits the X-Men, and again we're supposed to agree with him. In Avengers vs. X-Men, the spiritual follow-up, the entire incident could have been avoided had he not bad-mouthed Cyclops to Captain America, and later he suggests the idea of killing Hope (you know, the girl who can repopulate his race?!) to end the Phoenix threat, which later turns out to have been a terrible idea that nobody else supported. Despite that, he ends up on the side of angels while Cyclops is arrested for terrorism.

This hit its peak when, during the Battle of the Atom crossover, Wolverine calls out Cyke for killing Charles Xavier. Never mind that Cyke was possessed by a cosmic force and killed Xavier in self defense, Wolverine kills all the time! Cyclops calls him out on the hypocrisy, pointing out that Cyclops has killed one person, while Wolverine has killed many. How does Wolverine respond? "Nobody I've killed matters." That is a direct quote. Note that at the time, Northstar was on his team, a character who, a few years ago, Wolverine had killed while brainwashed, essentially the same circumstances that Cyclops was under when he killed Xavier. No one points this out.

Jean essentially mind raped Cyke into foaming a relationship with Emma so he would move on after her death. Keep in mind, Emma herself originally mind raped Cyclops into having an affair with her before Jean's death and he never intended on leaving Madelyn he just wanted to meet with Jean not his fault S'ym tricked her and led Cyke to believe she was dead

And the Revolution (and not all are violent) was a bluff

Emma wants good things, safety for her students and mutantkind, she has learned not being a villain is more effective but she still won't put principle over pragmatism, this is WHY she is such an awesome ethics teacher

I'm supporting Cyclops he may not be doing it in the best of ways, and he could benefit from trying to have a sit down with Cap and Logan and trying to get some peace between the three of them, but he's still the only one trying to help the situation. All Logan's lot are doing are telling him he's in the wrong, going on about how bad he is, and how, if they confront him it'll cause a war. They're literally sitting back and letting the world tear apart the new mutants and judging him for trying to stop it.

The thing that bugs me whenever Scott says he gave up/moved on from that, in that he clearly hasn't. He spent a considerable amount of time while in San Fran building bridges between humans and mutants (during the time when he was most criticized for putting peace to the back burner), and even today, Scott's motivations for everything is to stop humans picking on mutants. That's petty much one of the main things Xavier taught him to do. He's not actively trying to antagonize humans or start a war or preaching mutant supremacy, if anything, is actions could lead to his team preventing it.

He knew that letting the Avengers take Hope away would cause the world to become a nuclear wasteland in the future from future Cable (who Marvel has treated as Jesus for decades)

"His public persona is almost at t-shirt level. He’s like a Che Guevara kind of image for college students. And they go, “Scott Summers is trying to feed the poor and clean the water and do all this cool stuff as Phoenix,” and they don’t know what happened. They just know that “The Man” kind of shut him down. So they look at him and he’s on the cover of "Rolling Stone," so there’s this image of Scott Summers that he’s trying to live up to while he’s dealing with all his demons and all the misunderstanding and hatred that he has from the other mutants."

It was Stark on Captain America's order who got the Phoenix in them in the first place

Scott wasn't trying to hurt anyone at that point. He was honestly trying to help, and he did do some things that were noble, such as stabilizing climates and providing food for starving countries. The two seem more bothered that its Scott's got all this power, rather than what he's doing with it.

Scott did, however, turn crazy evil, but not until after the Avengers did some pretty dickheadish things to piss him off. Its hard to blame someone for losing control or turning into the Dark Phoenix when the 'heroes' are so obsessed with the fact he might turn evil or go mad with power that they do everything they can to make him angry

the Avengers are adults too who are capable of voicing their concerns and such by means other than 'attack-attack-assemble', and are more than capable of trying peaceful solutions.

However, what should be stressed is that, none of the Phoenix Five were mentally sane, before or after it bonded to them. The Phoenix is a power that requires the host be completely in control of themselves. Magik is crazy, Namor is bipolar, Emma is prone to bouts of self loathing and guilt, Piotr was currently demonically possessed, and Cyclops is, well, he requires a list:
He's completely incapable of expressing emotion in a healthy, adult manner, he's also prone to self loathing, he blames himself for all the tragedies in his life (from Thunderbird's death to the Schism with Logan), he was possessed by Apocalypse and died, came back, was separated, and spent a while afterwards dealing with intense PTSD to which he never actually got proper treatment or counselling for, he's currently got the Void, the entity responsible for Sentry's mental issues, locked up inside his head, he's still obsessed with his first girlfriend, he was abused as a child, he spent his teen years being trained to be a child soldier, and following the death of his wife he's basically left with nothing but being the leader to his team. Scott is literally the last person who should've been given the Phoenix.
The point is, they may be adults, but they're not mentally sane adults, and the Phoenix force does not help that matter. The P5 had the excuse of the Phoenix making them more prone to acting out in a manner that they shouldn't do so. Cap and the Avengers didn't have that excuse, they acted just as childish, idiotic, and antagonistic as they did, and did so without the same mental issues or cosmic fuel to the fire

Scott like Black Panther and Captain America are supposed to be like Marvel’s Batmen, but he doesn’t have the charisma they do or even Magneto and Xavier

There are reasons Sinister is obsessed with Cyclops family genes

Beast killed millions on Cap’s order also

I know Xavier was a loved one and his death hurts more, but it still seems hypocritical to me

Not to mention what happens when the Celestials come back the Mutants aren't there I think they'd effortlessly destroy the world after effortlessly defeating every superhero and every single god in every single pantheon

Balance it with the countless more lives the Phoenix has saved, it is a fundamental force of the universe, life incarnate, sometimes you need a forest fire so new life, future generations (which is all that really matters) to thrive, sometimes nature must be ruthless and brutal

Rachel Summers... the last human host of the Phoenix Force, who wielded the power for years as a hero and never once went as out of control as The Avengers have talked about. You'd think someone, like say Wolverine, who is an Avenger and knew both Rachel and Jean Grey, would mention this. Nope. You'd think the X-Men — many of whom, like Logan, were teammates with both Phoenixes — would mention this or the fact that Jean didn't really go crazy until her mind was mucked with by Mastermind? Again, nope. Rachel herself? Again. No

Mutatis mutandis roughly having changed the things that needed to be changed
4/4 c17 Guest
Shuma-Gorath, for instance, has relied on numerous gods and demons to do its bidding and has a massive power difference to back it up. Mephisto and Sataanish, demons who in their own realms are nigh-omnipotent, are said to be like "mice in a great temple" compared to even one of Shuma-Gorath's weaker forms. It is the ruler of literally hundreds of universes and worshipped in thousands more, so the fact that it is a God of Evil makes its power particularly worrying.

It got worse when it's revealed in The Thanos Imperative that Shuma-Gorath is merely one member of an entire pantheon of these things called the Many-Angled Ones

Mephisto, Satannish and a few others are "brothers" in the sense that they were born from the same "mass of evil energy", possibly the one left after the destruction of the Elder Gods. Also, Satan has NEVER officially appeared in Marvel Comics; it's always been some other demon impersonating him. This is a retcon, probably for politically correct reasons, as Satan was a regular character in the "Son of Satan" (now known as Hellstorm) series in the 1970s. That "Satan" was later revealed to be Marduk Kurios, possibly a corrupted version of the Babylonian god (but there's someone else claiming to be that deity, too.) He showed up again when Wolverine went to hell. The "Satan" who created Ghost Rider was revealed to have been Mephisto.

Mephisto has claimed to be the source of all evil on several occasions. Of course, Mephisto lies. The true nature, if any, is kept intentionally vague.

Well, what with his appearance, being one of the few demons to actually offer humans deals with the Devil and trying to corrupt pure souls, he's probably the closest thing the MU will ever have to Satan.

Marvel did have a "Satan", but that later retconned because of the CCA at the time. Marvel introduced the fallen angel Lucifer into the Marvel universe, but insists he is a different entity than Satan(which isn't invalid

Fallen angels seem to be a different beast than the Mephisto type demon lords altogether.

The first appearance of the "Son of Satan" was in an issue of Ghost Rider. Daimon and Satana Hellstrom's and GR's Satan were the same entity, originally.

It was revealed in a Fear Itself Tie-in, that the Demon Lords have meetings around Satan's empty throne. Mephisto even mentions, that while Demon Lords like to falsely claim to be "Satan", none of them dare do it near Satan's throne, or even sit on it. If they did, they'd be torn apart by all the other claimant hell-lords.

It was noted though by Mephisto that Marduk Kurios really does believe and persistently insist that he is in fact THE real Satan, so for all we know "Satan" may originally have been the official title for the ruler of Hell and not a specific entity, with Marduk the first holder of the title until he was eventually deposed and failed to regain his throne ever since.

It should be remembered after all that during the Chaos War storyline, the Devil Powered by All of Hell's Fire who personally battled Marvel's biggest Big Bad to date, the Chaos King itself (who is the yin to the yang of Eternity himself), in the last stand of the Marvel nether realms, was Marduk Kurios.
There are also many demon lords who don't go after the title of Satan but have no less nefarious goals, such as Lilith, Blackheart, Asteroth, The Beast Of The Hand and Plokta. All but the latter are confirmed to have different origins than the main group though.

Mephisto goes on a date with New Mutants member Magma; apparently confiding in her, he explains that, while he is the embodiment of one of the great forces of the universe, the force that created him also gave him desires and emotions, and occasionally wants to do human things. Magma later confided to Blink that she has subsequently seen Mephisto again, but wishes to keep it secret. After speaking with the Gods at the Infinite Embassy, Mephisto headed to the Devil's Advocacy to speak with the other demons about the Serpent's threat on Earth.
Mephisto briefly appears to assist Deadpool in destroying one of his demon lieutenants, before taking a major part in the Hell On Earth War, where he is defeated and replaced by X-Factor member Strong Guy as ruler of Hell.

Mephisto does more good than UNICEF because if people die young quick and horrible they go straight to heaven because they never had a chance to do bad things

it's not like he's trying to hide or justify the fact that he's dedicated to tricking people out of their souls so he can torture them for eternity. He doesn't particularly come off WORSE after the whole Disir thing

Mephisto may be cute and funny and charming when he wants to be, but he's also basically the worst person in the universe. Unless Amara's more myopic than Harley Quinn, it's hard to see how she could put that out of her mind enough to enjoy the date

He's sometimes been impersonated by lesser demons who imitate his form. Such demons are defeated far more easily than the virtually invincible Mephisto

he'll often allow himself to be beaten if he can use the event to give a greater enemy more grief down the line

While he's certainly very, very powerful and competent and has a not-insignificant amount of major accomplishments to his name, he also likes to act like he's a far bigger deal than he actually is, as beings like Chthon, Set, and Dormammu greatly dwarf him in power (unless he's in the confines of his own realm, but they aren't dependent on that) and potential reach (he generally accomplishes far more than they do, but that's because they're either locked away or act on a far larger scale, which understandably takes more time and effort).

This is partly strategy, however- he makes himself out to be the Ultimate Evil because that works to his advantage, making his enemies and victims fear him more as well as spreading misinformation about who and what he really is (if he even knows himself). Still arguably counts as this since he's rarely quite as successful or menacing as you'd think a genuinely powerful demon like him should be. Then again, he could be deliberately trying to appear weaker than he really is, so maybe he's playing a long-game. Regardless, he's never one to be underestimated.

Case in point, he once tricked the supposedly far greater Dormammu in fighting Galactus, resulting in the former getting eaten for his troubles. By comparison, the one time Galactus in Mephisto fought (again,in Mephisto's own realm), he stalemated Galactus instead. The same story also shows Mephisto-from within his own realm- effortlessly bending Umar, Dormammu's supposedly only slightly less powerful sister, to his will

This is why no one should ever make a deal with him. He absolutely loves overly specific interpretations of deals that screw the other party over as much as possible while still technically being within the terms.

A good example was the time when he pitted Johnny and Zarathos against Asmodeus, saying they would be freed from each other if they managed to outrace him, but if they weren't fast enough to win, they'd have to serve Asmodeus. Ghost Rider wins the race, but Mephisto finds some reason to back out of the deal. Ghost Rider was really bait to get his rival to accept a small fine; Mephisto might consider being blasted into non-existence "small" but it probably wasn't what Asmodeus had in mind.

Had the tables turned and this used against him by Thanos. He offered to help in one of the Mad Titan's quests in exchange for a Cosmic Cube. Once it was over, Thanos gave him a Cube and Mephisto immediately tried to use it to obliterate Thanos. Turns out that Cube's power had already been drained and it was useless. Thanos pointed out he never specified a functional Cosmic Cube and that even devils should be careful when making deals with the Mad Titan. Needless to say, Mephisto was not pleased

Writers can't seem to agree on exactly what he is or where he came from; since he's the Prince of Lies, this has been explained as Mephisto either not knowing himself and/or making stuff up to better confuse people. On one occasion Dormammu thought he was playing Mephisto like a fiddle, only for the exact opposite to be true, with Mephisto even calling Dormammu out on having the nerve to try and deceive him when he was the one who invented deception and manipulation

He knows how people think

Yeah, he always fulfills his part of a deal because he's bound by oath. That being said, he will always fulfill it to the letter and nothing more while going out of his way to screw over the other party as much as he can within the confines of the oath, and if the terms of a deal don't really allow him to do that much to mess someone or he really feels like being a dick, he'll just rob them of everything that they gained from the deal somewhere down the line. He has no reason for doing any of this, either; "just felt like being an asshole" is about as deep as his rationale gets. Needless to say, it tends to come back to bite him in the ass, but since he's virtually impossible to destroy and has a seemingly neverending supply of new entrants for pacts, "don't $#!t where you eat" has never really crossed his mind
4/4 c16 Guest
His calculations were right Reed doesn't understand magic

That small scar was a scratch from Mephisto he HAD to put the mystic burning guardmask on that way

Doom does not beg

Doom has his honor he will keep the letter of his word it is not Doom's fault you did not pay close enough attention or are not smart enough to see through it of course that goes out the window when he can prove he's smarter than Reed of course that goes the other way as well his greatest noblest deeds are doing what Reed can't

Saving Susan Storm, her daughter, and Johnny Storm when Richards couldn't do anything to help them. And then ensuring he would never forget his debt to him by naming the newborn child after his former beloved, Valeria. Whom Doom guaranteed no one will ever harm.

Also a Heartwarming Moment. In Loki: Agent of Asgard, when Latveria's people devolve into fighting each other under the Red Skull's Hate Plague, Doom's attempts to restore order quickly devolve into more violence as he starts succumbing to the same. Until a homicidal thought against Valeria crosses his mind, at which point he quickly realizes that he is under telepathic attack. He immediately shields himself successfully, divines the attack's source and turns his thoughts to finding a solution for all Latverians.

If his people don't like him they at least hate him less than any likely alternatives

Within the same sequence Doom delivers perhaps the only fully justified use of A God Am I a mortal can make: Having soundly defeated a god, he has achieved symbolic godhood, which aids his magic.

Doom, while being dissected by a god-like entity after being torn limb from limb in the course of a one-man assault on the same, proceeded to kill said entity with Doom's one remaining hand and take his power for Doom's own.

in one dimension he was the only one in the entire universe to resist being consumed by a zombie plague through sheer willpower alone is a perfect example of the iron determination possessed by Doom.

the time he fought Red Skull on the moon and let Steve Rogers remember that as a Romani, Doom earned his chance to make that Nazi swine pay.

When Doom was in the time of King Arthur with Iron Man, no tricks with their technology were needed to impress Arthur; the Seal of Latveria Doom wears as sovereign was enough for the proper respect

When Reed Richards was out of action and the Fantastic Four (or what remained of them) were facing off against an impressive psychic power called...No, that would be telling. Let the following quote show you why exactly the Fantastic Four came to Doom for aid.
"Turn your eyes from the Torch, Over-Mind — DOOM approaches!"

In a Fantastic Four: The End mini-series, a future Doom is shown to be battered and using special armor which includes a pair of cybernetic limbs. The accursed Richards ends up tricking Doom into entering the Negative Zone for his supposed death. But the final page shows Doom standing atop Annihilus' corpse, the alien's severed head in one hand, the Cosmic Control Rod in another and the assembled hordes of the Negative Zone chanting "DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!" Beware, Richards, for this future Doom has conquered the Negative Zone itself

When Tony Stark fired a volley of his repulsor blasts at him, Doom calmly waited behind the mystical barrier he had established, unflinching. After he failed to penetrate the barrier with his Hulkbuster armor, he then calmly explained how he would be better off working with him, instead of against him. A combination of magic and technology made Doom undetectable to his new armor while Doom waited for him at a children's hospital. After an... "incident" involving Luke Cage, Doom's castle came under attack from Latverians who turned against their ruler. When last seen, Doom was facing off against them... rest assured, Doom triumphed effortlessly. Doom gets one in a flashback issue of All-New, All-Different Avengers during the Civil War 2 tie-ins. In the past he sought to annex a bordering country, which the Avengers opposed him in battle for after getting word from a future vision that they'd win the battle. He was prepared though, as he had left a contingency in his super weapons that if destroyed they'd wipe out a rare mineral from the nation he was invading, the sole resource of the nation. With it gone, the nation's economy was ruined and they had no choice but willingly join Latveria. Doom lost the battle true, but he won the war.

The issue depicting Doom's return from Hell (or a Hell like dimension, take your pick) shows Doom's return to Latveria. In the time Doom had been gone, a provisional government had been set up, briefly run by the very corrupt Lucia Von Bardas. After her deposure, the new Prime Minister starts thinking about what to do with all those Doombots, and the mindset that went into making them.
Latverian Prime Minister: Any other man...
Doom: (appearing from absolutely nowhere, grabs the man by the neck) Any other man... would not be Victor Von Doom. (breaks the man's neck)

"I am Bast, Cat God of Egypt, Panther God of Wakanda. Lie to me, Doom, and I WILL DEVOUR YOU!"

Doom: "I know who you are. And I know that when I stepped through that arch, my life was forfeit."

"But know this: I give to you what I have given to no one else. I open my mind and heart and soul to you."

Bast: "Is that bravery or arrogance that puts such steel in your voice?"

Doom: " Neither. It is faith. I know who and what I am. Look into my soul, cat god. Look and see the truth that is DOOM."

Bast: "You would slaughter millions to save billions. You would rewrite history, wreck nations, let yourself be called a tyrant and a murderer. All to satisfy your dream of one world under Doom."

Bast: "And yet."

Bast: "You believe that this is the only path to salvation for all mankind. You believe that with your whole heart. Everything you have ever done-your plots and twisted excesses-all serve this one goal."

Bast: "I, too, have looked into the million pathways of the future. I, too, have seen the one path that leads to a world without evil, without hurt, without want (where mankind unites, thrives, survives). And though my own soul cries out in denial, I must act according to the truth."

Bast: "Though your methods are abhorrent and vile, your intent is pure. You have passed the test. The vibranium is yours to take...do with it as you will."



Zenpool 2099

Kilgore arms commercial/Mandroid


Mark II Sentinel giant robot/X Collapsible suitcase sentinel/XI all terrain/XII nanobot sentinels/XIII tri Sentinel

Egyptia Latverion

Sentinel X Shogo
Aliana Alba

Latveria is one of the most advanced nations on Earth, but most of the landscape looks quaint and medieval—because Doctor Doom likes the quaint medieval look.

Wakanda, home of the Black Panther, goes even beyond Latveria in some versions. Someone might stumble on what looks like a harmless and primitive—at best Bronze Age—African village on the edge of the country and mistake it for an easy target only to discover the apparently decorative stone statues are shooting plasma bolts, armed flying drones are being launched from a wooden hut, and the spears those loincloth-wearing warriors are tossing? Rocket-boosted self-guided smart missiles with high explosive armour-piercing warheads. Techno organic jungle

Minor villain/heroic ally Arkon and his city Polemachus would count. Arkon is loincloth-wearing, sword-wielding barbarian who rides giant lizards, but carries thunderbolt-shaped energy spears that can open dimensional portals and be hurled for powerful energy bursts. The city he rules, Polemachus, is something out of a Frank Frazetta/Roger Dean album cover with such weirdtech as mind-controlling machines, but they somehow never develop atomic power (Arkon had to kidnap and brainwash Earth scientists to get the secret of developing nukes. The Schizo Tech elements get furthered as Arkon often goes raiding Earth and other dimensions for the opportunity to steal what technology Polemachus doesn't have, and his people have a highly developed use of sorcery and magic besides their own native science

Marvel Manga-verse, T’Challa is still King of Wakanda and when calling upon the help of the God Qamatha, he can transform into a Were-Panther. His appearance in the Were-Panther form is of a large humanoid panther in ancient Egyptian clothing. He can also call upon Qamathas's power to change himself into the Falcon. In this form, his appearance is heavily influenced by the ancient Egyptian god Horus. In this reality, his magical abilities are prominent as Dr. Strange notices his magical trail.

T'Calla in his Thrice-blessed Armor, wielding the Ebony Blade. T'Challa possess specialized Thrice-blessed Armor and Light Armor for specific Thrice-blesses armor functions the same way as Iron Man's armor, and is also enhanced with Magic abilities.



Doc Croc/Afrikaa

Zawavari-witch doctor of Wakanda

Hydra-Nick Fury clones
HAMMER-Captain America clones Militant
National Force American Panther, 88
Alex Wilder
Elisa Sinclair
Monica Rappaccini
Head Case

Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda
Universal Bank

Star Brand (cosmic cube in tattoo form, Justice, Nightmask, and Spitfire)

Doctor Voodoo

Big Town Council of Reeds

Symbiote/Super-Adaptoids Angelus Warriors hordes completely under thrall

symbioid/Spawn/Angelus Warriors/thoughtforms)- Avengers One Million BC-Panther(fauna/chimera/kaiju), Thor, Sorcerer Supreme, Ghost Rider, Iron Fist (Cap America), Phoenix (Cap Marvel), Starbrand, Hulk, Iron Man


Techno Organic Jungle virus Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda


Krork-Maestro/Leader/Professor/Doc Green/Doc Samson/Green Scar/Sakaarson/Nul “Breaker of Worlds” as well as Hobgoblin/Demogoblyn (Jack O Lantern)

Asteroid M(s)-Krakoa- Savageland(s), Danger, Planet X Attilan(Zero-Techno-organic-Technoarchy, Phalanx, Barbuda, Builders

Most of the heroes consider Fury a good guy because the thought of him being a villain is too terrifying you will never be as bada$$ as this World War II vet from New York's Hell's Kitchen Fury started fighting the Nazis with his band of brothers the Howling Commandos first before moving onto more esoteric foes of humanity It was sometime between moving to work for the CIA and fighting a hate-ray powered clone of Adolf Hitler alongside a walking pile of rocks that Fury realized that when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. And thus has followed a several decade long Crowning Moment Of Awesome

Why he is cooler than you will ever be: He has a Flying Car, he parks this Flying Car in his Flying Base filled with Life Model Decoys and psychic spies, he's fought radioactive robots in space, he's chased a warlord to another dimension to fight psychic duels with his literal Eyepatch of Power, he's hunted Godzilla he is a Badass Normal feared by Nigh Invulnerable beings, he is feared by Nigh Invulnerable beings because he has demonstrated the "nigh" portion by killing several, he never looks at explosions, he does, however ride motorcycles through explosions while shirtless and Dual Wielding Laser Pistols, he is literally ageless, he once willingly turned himself into an Eldritch Abomination to save reality, he's beaten up Adolf Hitler on more than one occasion

Captain America Cyclops and Black Panther are Marvel's Batmen Bats even says Cap would be beat him though it would take a long time

Master of the World, Leader/Maestro, Kang Doctor Doom White Wolf/Man-Ape/Killmonger (K'Liluna), Mandarin Baron Mordo Demonicus, Tomi Shishido-The Hand, Apocalypse- Weapon Infinity/Super Skrulls all cool X-Men villains, Azazel Selene Sebastian Shaw Sinister,clones of Madelyn Pryor (Goblyn Queen)(Karasu-Tengu and Sojobo-Tengu) Margali Szardos Amanda Sefton (Scarlet Witch Storm and Agatha Harkness are Earth's High Priestess together,Homo novissima Sublime/Arkea, Cassandra Nova Neo, Children of the Vault, Romulus Onslaught Pandemic Vargas High Evolutionary Kingpin- The Owl/Count Nefaria/Mr. Negative/The Hood HydraCap- Wolfgang von Strucker/Zemo/Viper, Hive/Kraken/Scorpio- Nick Fury's clones Master Man/Warrior Woman/Baron Blood

Bricklemoore twins

Maybe Dracula Vampire Kingdom on the Moon

Sentry/Taskmaster super soldier serum

The Celestials are why we have mutants and other things don't just kill humans but sometimes give them powers, they made the Eternals also

Namor- He's a mutant as well why he has wings on his ankles Atlantis

Pietro-Crystal-Attilan-Inhumans- take command of Kree Intergalactic Empire

Charles Xavier-Lilandra- Command of Shi'ar Intergalactic Empire (Kid Omega/Zen Gunnery)

Storm-Black Panther-Wakanda (Techno Organic Jungle Intergalactic Empire)

Monster Island- Archipelagos off Japan and Bermuda Triangle connect through vast passageways all across the earth through the Earth hordes of giant monsters commanded by Mole Man
4/4 c15 Guest
Time Clocks- transcend time and space Goldeneye (pocket)watch hyperspace weapons and gadgets flying castle tank (jet/submarine/spacecraft)/suit (White Shadow-symbioid/Spawn/Angelus Warriors/thoughtforms)- Avengers One Million BC-Panther(fauna/chimera/kaiju), Thor, Sorcerer Supreme, Ghost Rider, Iron Fist (Cap America), Phoenix (Cap Marvel), Starbrand, Hulk, Iron Man

Battery sized cold fusion power cities across planet

Reborn as noble abhumans-Dwarf/Giant
Beast(flora-Jack o Lanter)(chimera/kaiju)/Golem-robot cyborg)folk/ogre/troll Heroes of the Storm

bacteria/plague insect/swarm bird/flock wear cities as crowns size changing dragons/chimera/kaiju

Orks become Krork- Maestro/Leader/Doc Green/Professor/Green Scar/Sakaarson/Nul “Breaker of Worlds” as well as Hobgoblin/Demogoblin

Eldar become Asurai organic Amazos/ Warhammer Fantasy Elves

Krork-Maestro/Leader/Professor/Doc Green/Doc Samson/Green Scar/Sakaarson/Nul “Breaker of Worlds” as well as Hobgoblin/Demogoblyn, Eldar become Azurai Magno organic Amazos/Brother Grimm Warhammer Fantasy Elves, A/ErakylonCelestial-halfangel-half devil demoness, Fairy/Pixie/NegaSpyte/Genie, Gnome, arch/uber/ultragremlin/demiimp-antifairy, replicae (genetic diversity different races and genders) perfect human (captain America/Nick Fury/Cable) clone, enhance (cybernetic brains) completely under thrall Symbioids Justice Titans-Supermartian/Rann/(Skorp Von Warstar)Adam Strage-John Carter/Flash Gordon, Wonderhawk, Aquaorion, Alakazam-Captain Marvel/Shazam/Zatara-Doc Fate(Wyrd)Mandrake, Bat-Lantern, Zauriel, Superdemon, Squad Superman (Earth 14/33/13)

Oxy-chew/Ninja Gum
Sythdroid hench dies becomes two (maximum one thousand for balance) becomes fire team, squads, and sections, companies, platoons, and regiments, they cover entire continents entire worlds, behind them roar and howl the engines of battle tanks war machines so massive they crush mountains to dust beneath their treads, ships and attack craft blot out the sun

Skins no two exactly alike enough genetic diversity gender and color

General Industrious

Scientific facts are true and denying them for corporate greed only gets people killed

Corporations being allowed to run every industry and infiltrate every facet of life is a recipe for disaster — especially when it comes to public safety — and they should always be made to know their limits. At the same time, corporations exist for a reason and are made up of people, not cartoon villains (even if the people at top can be greedy jerks) and "tearing down the system" instead of fixing it will lead to just as much death and horror as letting them run rampant.

More upset won't kill them

Sometimes it's better to pretend to lose or pretend to be a loser

Everything in life is a set of advantages and disadvantages

Try to rehabilitate if you can and if you can't put mad dogs down

Nurture means teaching to take care of themselves and praising when earned and scolding not shaming when deserved

Those who want their own lives to be hard and difficult and dangerous don't get to force that on anyone else


Krakoa/Superego/Phalanx seed

Techno Organic Jungle virus Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda


Asteroid M(s)-Krakoa- Savageland(s), Danger, Planet X Attilan(Zero-Techno-organic-Technoarchy, Phalanx, Barbuda, Builders


bacteria/plague insect/swarm bird/flock wear cities as crowns size changing dragons


Yuuzhan Vong biots/Star Forge

RVs/motor homes run completely on human waste

Sunstone/Fortress of Solitude(Kole)/Wonderdome/New Themyscira/Thalarion/Mythlands-Cosmopolitan, Multiethnic/Omniethnic/Citizenry of the Empire of the Silver Snake/Zerox/Skartaris/Nth Metal/Mother Box-Element X-Celestial City/Warworld

Flying teleporting superscience city on own planet in own solar system in own pocket dimension each in own five hundred trillion alternative universes

Aether dragons wear city as crown crew spaceship fleets

Prim8-werecyborggorilla (duplicate eight for balance) with superintelligent tinker/thinker build nanoforge/fabricator post scarcity barrel of monkeys army armed with monkeywrench for super science magic wand

Kong/Grodd/Ultra-Humanite/Jokaero/Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys/Super Apes/Super Abominapes/Ghouloon

Kwisatz Haderach powers summon and command the cinnamon spice like dust and sandstorm Cinnamon beach desert sandstorm

summon copy of opponent under thrall

Castlevania summon castles, hordes of armors/wolves/bats/birds/mist

picotech tooth jewelry


Eierlegende Wollmilchsau or egg laying wool-milk-sow
miniature Thundercloud Generator

Clever assassination or attrition

Some will root for the underdog no matter what heroes don't punch down

Human stupidity and greed are impossible to predict

Conflict is apparently more interesting to read about for most people than post bio/cyber solar punk post scarcity still I want to read about it

Everyone should have Symbioid duplicate a dozen like angelus warriors

Some think if it goes on like this it's not going to be any different than if aliens conquered/enslaved humanity we'd be bred to alter brain chemistry to be like dogs who genetically worship our masters as work/herd/guard/attack/lap/etc dogs

Survive-flight (freeze) /eat/fight/mate THIS is who we are at our core we can't control our nature but we can control our actions

matter replicator-Vending Machine


Human replica droid

blasters, droid army, ships

medpack- diagnostics such as medisensors and also could provide flexclamps, synthflesh, irrigation bulbs, bacta, kolto, spray-bandages, bacta patches, spray hypos, bone stabilizers, antiseptics, medical drugs, coagulants, stimulants such as stim-shots, and other essential medicines for the treatment of wounds.

Terraform processor
Single atom wide blade

Infantilization is also abuse

Don't blind yourself to the faults of those you love

the real world is a harsh and violent place that sometimes takes a fair amount of violence to survive in

Floating teleporting archipelago palace eyerie pyramid with a dozen smaller of same in garage

Swarms wasp/kaiju dragonmen snake/scorpion tails
Packs of Heavenhounds batwinged three headed wolfmen/werecerberusmen
Flocks (fauna)chimera-wyvern/wolf/sabretooth(stripes/spots)/bat/avianmen

Nolabab Mane of Snakes


Corrupt and/or incompetent democracy ideal autocracy

Do we do away with fire because of arson

Steal or starve, kill or be killed, when the devil is the only one offering you hand up you take it

"Everyone is a criminal, we bribe people every day to not commit crimes. Little offers of things like security and comfort in exchange for not simply taking what is wanted. We write arbitrary rules that define criminal and not criminal activities and then we withhold the generous bounty of society from those that do not conform to the rules we have written Heros, villains, rogues, these are labels we apply out of some adolescent desire to make the world black and white. this is the real world, street level drug dealers are desperately peddling drugs to feed their own addictions, women are forced into prostitution to feed their families, kids join gangs to get enough money to help their parents. The conventions of good and evil, us and them, are the simple bigoted stereotypes of an older age. If you want to solve the problem you have to remove your blinders and actually see what's going on here.

It comes down to ability and opportunity

Where are the hospitals and universities

Mad dogs need to be put down but lambs are only good for going to the slaughter

We aren't worker/warrior ants we're tool using killer apes

Don't let anybody tell you that size doesn't matter,” he said, without any innuendo at all. “Given equal skill, a big man will beat a little man nine times out of ten. So if you're smaller, and weaker, that means that you have to be better just to keep up. But I'd rather fight a big man than a small one.

Because a small man is going to be afraid, which means that he will kill you. Big man has less to prove, might back off or leave you lying. Small man is going to keep kicking you in the head to be sure that you won't get up.
4/4 c14 Guest
Werlin Xyrlyn Zerlin
Bruna Ambrosia Fay (Dawn/She Ra)
Julius Force

Gothtopia/ Gotharkanum


Deathstrike Clan high tech/mystic/martial arts and former One Earth Regime Troops 5-U-93-R/Exobytes/Motherbox Dial H app/ofuda bandages incense aythyrium healing phyrwater
Sphynx- Quizmaster (antimatter Earth three Riddler and Catwoman-Robin Hood/Lara Croft/Indianna Jones fashion/cosmetic if not pharmaceutical corporation)
Manticore Owlman and Black Cat

Orion at least tries to be the god of JUST war violence only when necessary

Night Haunter- Brighthammer- Dark Claw-Nick Fury's Deputy Amalgam
YuleScape-Baphomet/Krampus- Onomatopoeia’s fake hero ID, Huntress’s protégé


Flying castle tank

Kherubium Technology Halo Corporation

batteries that last forever, cars that didn't need gas (and lasted forever) and computers that would never need to be upgraded or even plugged in, Spartan Guards as household tools

Leo Quintum

nanonauts designed to explore the Yoctasphere, or massive Titan Voyagers designed to explore outer space in the long term

photosynthetic Bizarro drones

Carolyn Llewellyn/Dr. Poison/Pkzkrfmknna/Gzntplzk

Jack O'Lantern

Witch, broom, cauldron, Gray/white/black cat

Cauldron/fridge any food never empty
Mjolnir, Excalibur, Spear of Destiny, Holy Grail, Havokoid Super Adaptoid Symbiote Angelus Warriors hordes completely under thrall with Kaiju/giant robots, Throne

Thirteen O' Clock Archipelagos fortress instant teleport time and space Technodrome

Helmet Cerebro

Jack O' Lantern MotherBox T-Sphere/Crystal ball

Real Life controller cheat codes- American Dragon Jake Long

Magic Stones Cronvar- Keyboard pattern jewels/Crystal ball screen/World Wide Spiderweb/ Stuffed Mouse- Dave the Barbarian

Mirror-Internet/Ipad- Ever After High

Black Vortex

T Spheres/ Mystech balls
Fairly Oddparents remote control fairy/wand/ Pixie cell phone wand
Control Freak- Reality Warping Super Remote Control

Antigrav Jetboots/astrojitsu-mystic martial arts-energy ball/quadruple bladed lightsaber/fundamental forces of the universe blaster/power bands


Symbiote/Super-Adaptoids Angelus Warriors hordes completely under thrall

Sunstone/Fortress of Solitude(Kole)/Wonderdome/New Themyscira/Thalarion/Mythlands-Cosmopolitan, Multiethnic/Omniethnic/Citizenry of the Empire of the Silver Snake/Gem World/Skartaris/Nth Metal/Mother Box-Element X

Asteroid M(s)-Krakoa- Savageland(s), Danger, Planet X Attilan(Zero-Techno-organic-Technoarchy, Phalanx, Barbuda, Builders
Rainbow Cyber Volcano Tree

Lord Havok
Bretonnia King Arthur and the Knights of Justice Stone Warlords- loyal Men of Stone/Iron
flaming, phazr, power chainswords

Cavemen, Knights, pirates, cowboys, soldiers, Insider Amazo armor


Replicae perfect human clones with genetic diversity to breed different genders and races

The Emperor defeating the Void Dragon should theoretically give mankind command of all technology with the possible exception of artificial intelligence of course there is the Dark Mechanicum

Reborn as noble Abhumans including Brighthammer-Heroes of the Storm/Shadowrun/Starfinder races

Gue'vesa Bio/technomancer psykers- servents: Beastmen, Jokaero/Ghouloon/Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys/Kong/Grodd/Ultra-Humanite/Super Apes/Super Abominapes, Kroot, Tallerian, Necrontyranids loyal men/creatures of “iron”/flesh OMACS/Weapon Infinities/Super Skrulls

Darklings/Angelus Warriors-Soulphyre-Necroplasm (Spawn)/ Ectoplasm-Fright Knights/Harrow Ghost Warriors from all time and space/Rhya's servant creatures-flaming jack-o-lantern headed men command fire/air/wood/plants/earth, Taal's servant creatures- like Beast-legs and tail of wolf/body of bear/head and horns of buffalo/bison mane and teeth of lion/tusks of boar/gorilla eyebrows/wings gold/metal/energy claws/fangs command water/rain/hail/lightning

Doombot like command metal/gem encrusted gold crystals

Orks become Krork- Maestro/Leader/Doc Green/Professor/Green Scar/Sakaarson/Nul “Breaker of Worlds” as well as Hobgoblin/Demogoblin

Eldar become Asurai organic Amazos/ Warhammer Fantasy Elves

Gnomes make Starstone- Gem-encrusted gold with runes glowing plasma like Gromril/Mithril/Adamant/Laihtero-safely wield magic

patches that would allow them to instantly learn is encoded onto molecules on the patches so when they adhere to the skin, knowledge (of language in that case) can be transmitted through the blood to the brain Locations all over Khera displayed creative uses for Kherubim technology. The WildC.A.T.s stayed at a place called Coincidental Mansion which demonstrated Kherubim technology capable of directly altering probability and chance for entertainment purposes. In the entire area in and around the mansion, bizarre and improbable happenings were more likely to take place thanks to a "low probability field generator". While the other WildC.A.T.s stayed at the Mansion, Zealot, as leader of the Coda, stayed somewhere else. The base for the Coda was built in a desert called the Bay of Numbers. In the Bay, the grains of sand continually shaped and reshaped themselves into ever-changing geometric forms. Perfect spheres, cubes and other, seemingly random shapes would form out of the sand, but the order and placement of them never repeated (and never would for all eternity). Though Coincidental Mansion and the Bay of Numbers were just for decoration and entertainment, there are other Kherubim creations that serve more practical purposes. The most noticeble piece of Kherubim technology are the Spartan Guards. The Spartans are fully sentient robots that are built as personal bodyguards as well as a police force. Each Spartan has a "brain" more powerful than any other computer (on Earth or otherwise), is programmed to be able to use any technology it comes across, is equipped with powerful lasers, is skilled in armed and unarmed combat and has superhuman levels of strength, speed and durability. Spartan, one of these androids, is a permanent member of the WildC.A.T.s and also shows up in several other comics. In the Majestic one-shot: Wildstorm Spotlight: Majestic, he gets so advanced that he becomes a god, a powerful example of the limits (or lack thereof) of Kherubim technology. Of all the Kherubim creations though, the Kheran Dream Engine may be the best. It can warp reality to make thoughts and dreams real.

Teleportation, flying cars, plasma weapons

Space TravelThe Kherubim have ships built (or more accurately "grown") for interstellar flight and in some cases, faster than light travel. Most Kherubim ships are able to access and travel The Bleed, allowing them to visit other dimensions. These ships (and the other battle ships) are outfitted with some of Khera's best weaponry and are so massive, they could be considered small cities. Kheran ships have a unique control system that is operated by vocalizations. Kherans sing to their ships to get them to do what they want and the Kheran vocal range is different enough from other species (at least human and Daemonite) that they can't be piloted by non-kherans without extensive modification.

WeaponsThough the Kherubim have awesome technology and a myriad of machines that can do their fighting for them, most choose to fight for themselves and use bladed weapons to do so. Just because the weapons are not as complex as guns and lasers though, doesn't mean they aren't as effecient as other Kherubim tools. Blades made by Kherubim technology (called Kusar Blades) are capable of cutting anything, even beings of Superman/Mr. Majestic level durability. Sentient swords have been created that can deliver energy blasts as they strike (if the sword deems it necessary) as well as perform other tasks in the hands of a skilled swordsman. A sword like this is not common though, and only the highest ranking and most deserving are given weapons like this. Majestic owns another special blade that hasn't been seen before. It is a large sword capable of changing its shape (even changing from a blade to a completely different weapon like a spiked ball and chain) and also releasing energy blasts and electrical charges. There are also special weapons for stealth combat. Quantum-Folded Combat Blades are invisible and can be shrunk to the size of a cell phone and enlarged for combat. Skintight Nanoflage suits make the wearer invisible to all forms of surveillance and High-Dose Damper Capsules are pills that remove the powers of whoever ingests them so their energy signature is also undetectable.

All this is not to say that Kherubim don't have other, more complex weapons. The Kherubim have energy weapons, forcefield technology, genetic bombs and weapons created for large-scale warfare and world take-overs, it's just that they are rarely needed since the Kherubim themselves are war machines. One weapon that Kherubim possess is the Low-Grav Wallcrawler. It most resembles a normal Earth tank (with more cannons) but it can transform into an even bigger machine almost capable of going head to head with a Spartan Guard. These machines appear to be semi-sentient, able to be piloted or left to act on their own. The Kherubim also have bio-chemical weapons, one of which is the Haikyatu Armory. According to Emp it has two stages. The first is a bacteria bomb that destroys the nerve centers of all forms of life while keeping the bodies intact. The second stage reanimates and controls the bodies, creating an army of undead. Of course there are also the lasers and mega-bombs that most advanced races seem to have, but the Kherubim try not to totally destroy their enemies when they fight in case something can be gained from keeping them alive

There are a disturbing amount of people who would rather die than admit they (their ancestors) were wrong that they got conned

It doesn't matter if it's socialism or anarcho-capitalism the charlatans will find a way into power

Your side, their side, the truth, and what everyone else will believe despite all evidence to the contrary
4/4 c13 Guest
Mankind longs to be good, but at the same time we applaud the swift and brutal defeats of those in the wrong

Gotham City is a representation of everything that could possibly go wrong in a modern urban landscape. The system has broken down to a nightmarish degree. Corruption is rampant at every level of government. Street crime and urban blight are so prevalent that they're just considered part of everyday life. Even the most outwardly decent individual is just one traumatic experience from transforming into a baroque Serial Killer. The conventional forces for Law and order consistently fail to address the problems of the society they were created to serve, which necessitates the appearance of a non-conventional force (ie. a vigilante who makes extensive use of psychological warfare and theatrics, rather than logic and procedure). Modern society's problems have grown too large and too complex for its traditional ethics to address. Something new must be created to deal with these problems.

Which brings us to The Joker. He is the extreme of criminal behavior that law is unable to resolve. A constant throughout the series is that Joker can not be redeemed. His madness cannot be treated or cured. In fact his madness is slightly contagious; trying to analyze him, or in some cases just spending a significant amount of time in his proximity, may drive you mad as well. He can't be contained either; imprison him and he'll just break out again. Only one thing can really be done with him...and no representative of law and order - not even Gotham's extraordinary agent of it - is willing or able to do that. Thou Shalt Not Kill is the one rule that no one will break, even though it will quite handily solve the unsolvable problem of the Joker, and that is presented to us as a good thing. Unfortunately traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" do not apply in a place like Gotham. The city has been abandoned by God, and the only reason God's laws hold any sway at all is because it gives them comfort to the citizens of the city to believe that they do. The Joker's continued existence - and the continued reign of terror he engages in - is the inevitable end product of the moral myopia/moral hypocrisy of Gotham City. Everyone in Gotham - including the vigilante who is technically outside the system - is applying a system of morality to a situation where it is no longer relevant, and in the process contributing to their own self-destruction

I believe the general rule is do or at least try to do more good than harm

The Authority save more than they kill

The world needs men like Luthor not men like Batman check out Extermination from Boom

Wouldn't it have been better if his father had a gun and killed the mugger in self defense

Respectful when Supes is with Mr. Majestic or when he said a prayer for Tommy Monaghan not the condescension with other anti heroes like Manchester Black or Magog

Robin Hood fought against unfair taxes not the honest merchants

forced charity is not charity

Yes a Mega Corp can screw you over for your money just like a government can but it's usually killing the goose that lays the golden egg, there is no glory in ruling over starving beat down idiots but strong healthy people

A flat tax does help everyone so who cares if it helps the wealthy more, stop crying the other boy was faster so that's why he gets a trophy we're all going out for ice cream so shut up

American Dream is not picket fence etc, what people forget is it's the PURSUIT of happiness not do nothing and get a roof, food, etc., it's a chance to save your pennies and then get an education with no one saying you can't rise above your station simply "Independence" surviving in life depend not on your connections to the powerful few, but rather by one's own diligence, hard work, and a bit of luck, the Ankh-Morporkian Dream, that of "making boatloads of cash in a place where your death was not likely to be a matter of public policy"

redistribution of wealth usually does more harm than good

the Front Line they ruthlessly enforce civil liberties in the sixties, they stop France from getting nukes, and destroy Iran's oil reserves to nip terrorism in the bud, they're first degree $$holes who only do these things because they're good for business but they made their world better than ours and when they're taken down the world goes to straight to hell

In Black SummerTom Noir: "You want to change the nature of justice in America and you kill a president? What did you think that made you? Two-fisted Super-Jesus for the American Way? It made you Lee Harvey Oswald, you prick. You know what? Lots of people hated John F. Kennedy. He barely got elected. But Lee Harvey Oswald isn't remembered as an American hero. Just a prick who killed the president. That's you now, John."

A man's motives are second to his accomplishments say you want to make a statement about the third of the planet that is starving to death so you light yourself on fire in front of an embassy, but you don't actually help a single child, but if you go to these places to build a legitimate business and make money and actually develop the country and improve their standard of living you actually DO help

the nominal good guys aren’t willing to get their hands dirty or bloody or they don’t have the power, competence, or ability to act at the moment

Society's failures to provide for the elderly, the infirm, and the young (though we must also teach them to take care of themselves when they grow up) it must also not take away someone's pride and dignity some would rather die than give up their pride one shouldn't force them to live with shame and humiliation

Luthor IS the second smartest person in the universe after Brainiac but his creativity, ingenuity, and inventiveness makes up for the lack in raw brain power remember Red Son he did engineer a golden age that lasted millions of years of no poverty, war, crime, terrorism, science and art advance and so forth

Without property rights there are no human rights

Not everyone gets a trust fund, when you’re hungry you become a thief or killer if you have to

I have a family f* you and your high and mighty B.S. we little people can’t depend on you at all times

You keep poking a tiger eventually it’s going to bite you

Taking the law into your own hands is bad, dangerous, and more than a little crazy again not saying black ops don't have their necessity, they can be used as a force of good

we don't have to like, aid, or support them, normal people shouldn't have to, if you come from a loving family and a happy life you aren't and shouldn't be a tough guy but we don't always have sociopaths with codes sometimes normal people need to man up

Don't forget about defending the innocent when punishing the guilty

when you're hungry and you want to feed your starving family you steal bread to survive

Work out the logistics don't give some pie in the sky BS

asking people to lay down their lives for a higher cause believe in is not the same as asking them to just lay down and die it is wrong and stupid to ask someone to give up their self-preservation instincts

thieves have to be clever, quick, and brave, bootlickers only have to lick boots true the snob mentality isn't something they've created and is a major problem we all need to deal with but you shouldn't ask someone to give up their pride and dignity either and them acting like school bullies doesn't help

there are times to stand up for yourself and times to swallow your pride

Sinestro’s planet was lawless and wild And in the end of the Sinestro Corps War, Sinestro admits that what he really wanted was to improve the Green Lantern Corps, making them accept the use of deadly-force when necessary. He achieved his ends either way.

His people are practically BEGGING his daughter (the new Green Lantern of that sector) to become the next dictator

Stand for what you believe until and unless logic and/or experience prove you wrong

Bend the knee you can rise again if you’re dead you kind of have to stay dead unless you’re one of the people who put your underpants on the outside apparently

There are good and bad rich people and there are good and bad poor people and there are good and bad middle class people a civilized man accuses specific individuals of specific crime (felony and fraud)
Batman 1,000,000/3000/Beyond


One of Bruce's ancestors was framed for witchcraft by Vandal Savage in the Middle Ages, another ancestor was a knight of the Round Table who betrayed King Arthur, his spirit inhabit his armor to seek redemption

Damian's Goliath/Zur En Arrh


King Arthur and the Knights of Justice

Batman: Book of the Dead, Bruce Wayne's parents were archaeologists who were on the verge of cracking open a major conspiracy involving an Egyptian bat-god who was erased from history. They are murdered before Bruce's eyes due to their discovery, and Bruce becomes Batman when he is inspired by the bat cartouche that the assassin was really after.

Batman: Haunted Gotham Gotham City was taken over by the Dark Lords of Hell centuries ago. Bruce Wayne is raised by his parents to strike against them, and is joined in his quest by a skeleton named Cal and a sorceress named Cat Majik


Captain Thug did get uploaded with Batman's skills

Fletch Spora- Spore/Jade


Cobblepots along with Waynes Kanes and Elliots were Gotham's founding families

Female Furies Artemiz, Sweet Leilani, K'li, Bloody Mary, Alianna

Terror Twins Black Spider Enigma Joker's Daughter Jestra


Kasumi twin sister of Cassandra Cain

Deathbringer-Genocide (Deicide)


Slobo Gilotina

Red X, Blackfire, Rorek, Kyd Wykkyd, Johnny Rancid, Jinx,Control Freak- Reality Warping Super Remote Control Antigrav Jetboots/astrojitsu-mystic martial arts-energy ball/quadruple bladed lightsaber/fundamental forces of the universe blaster/power bands


Zibarro Drax Zyx


Queen Clea

4/4 c12 Guest
Vandal Savage, King Kull, Ra’s al Ghul
Lex Luthor, Alexander Luthor Sr/Jr./Mazahs/Alexis/Alexandra
Aqua-Mariner, Amalgam Namor, Aquaman 1,000,000 and Dead KingAtlan/Sea King/Arion/Thanatos/Kordax/The Thirst; Ocean Master Black Manta
Astarte/Veronica Cale Theana, Paula/Gerta von Gunther, Bruna-Brunhilde, Gudra/Gundra, Deva, Dark Angel, Grail (Barda/Bekka/Maxima), Queen of Fables, Crow Children

Gargareans, Mythlands-Cosmopolitan, Multiethnic/Omniethnic
Black Adam/Sivana (scientifically copy Shazam's magic lightning), Osiris, Neron, Despero

Red King
Armies of Sand(wo)men/Dr. Destinies/Red Kings

Insect Queen Bee Symbeasts

Wonder Woman kicks Batman's butt every time they fight because that's what happens when a normal person goes against a super of that caliber with no kryptonite factor, of course they also have similar tactical mindsets or at least fighting skills and with her superior abilities she obviously has the advantage, she will use diplomacy before resulting to violence and even lethal force if absolutely necessary, she is more powerful than Superman and has better gadgets than Batman

Supes has a job and a boss, Bats has a butler and is the boss of one of the world's largest corporations, Supes may have his fortess of alien tech, Bats has even more cool stuff, Supes pines for one woman, Bats has a harem of fetish femmefatales who pine for him

You can only call Waller a villain in that she'll sacrifice the one for the many, she has a moral line and whether you agree with her or not it does not move, she's made Bats back down and acknowledge she has a point the CSA the Justice Lords

Antimatter Earth-3 Alexander Luthor/Mazahs/Doc Savage/Edison Rex/Axel Brass (Century Babies)/Xanatos (copy Ultimate Archmage familiar Stee/Iron Clan/Thailog shock troops)/Hank Scorpio/Oliver Warbucks-self-made man, never lost the common touch and never forgot where he came from, felt strongly that business owners had a responsibility to treat their employees fairly and had an equally great hatred of corruption

I always imagined nanotech like Spawn or the Darklings, Matrix, Satin Satan Girl (succubi/nymphs) , Belinda Zee, Supra/Ultra/Ubergirl, Superior Girl, Divine, Nuclear Men, Bizarros-stronger, Smarter, faster, tougher, better looking than Supes, Ms. Gsptlsnz, OMACS, Warsuits Luthor's power armor, Havokoids, Warmaker 1s, Alphina Brainiacs Indigo, enhanced Doomsday clones (Steel/Cyborg Superman/Eradicator, Tactile TK), Doomslayer, Superdoom, World Killers, Paragon, Vartox, Amazo

Rao's familiars- Flamebird and Nightwing Angelus Warriors: combined Shadowflamewing/Imperium of Mankind Double psyber Eagle egg/sunstone; Rao (god of the sun), Cythonna (goddess of ice) Yuda (goddess of the moon), Telle (god of wisdom), Mordo (god of strength), and Lorra (goddess of beauty)

Familiars- Wolves, Scratch-9-Gyrinx-Sabretooth/Witch familiar/pharaoh-Alley-Kat-Abra (Sleen),Ravens (American Eagle), Monkey, Winged Unicorn, Gryphon, (Black, White, Gray, Rainbow) Phoenix, Phaethon and Savitar, the sun dogs (dragons-insect to cat to Kaiju sized)- born out of Solaris' own nuclear furnace, and heir to his hydrogen-fueled power and fury Octus, the eight-dimensional cephalopod - from the bottom of the seas of neptune. While it is impossible for creatures limited to a three-dimensional perception of the universe to fully understand his powers, his weird limpet grenades have proven to be most effective weapons.

Wormhole - unfathomable denizens of the black gulfs between stars, with the ability to bend space and time to his command

Flashpoint/Epsilon: Magog, Tokyo Rose- Mystic martial arts (Darklings from Darkness (as well as symbiote/Super-Adaptoid/Demogoglin) like giant robots and monsters like Kaiju as well as cyborg demonic ninjas and Samurais/Huntsclan/Snake Eyes, Mirabai, Manotaur, XXX like 666-Judge Dread-Judge Dredd and Death/Mortis, NIL-8, Americommando-Major Glory

Stormwatch/Meritocracy/Protectorate: Mr. Majestic, Midnighter, Century Babies amalgam-Doc Savage, Jenny Quarx-Mystechnician, King of Cities/Wyld, John Lynch/TAO


Manchester Black-Telekinesis telepathy, symbiote/symbeast(s)-(Darkness/Angelus/Witchblade/Spawn), magic club, magic hat from which can pull anything; Manchester Black Americanitis John Smith- shirt with American flag and baseball bat-Shine/Bright Knight-Shade, Angelus etc

Billy Butcher; Good Homelander/Major Glory-The Boys coat etc., Becky Butcher, Greg D. Mallory, Tommy Monaghan- Ace of Winchesters, Jesse Custer-Preacher, Max Damage

Buck “Buffaloman” Storm- modern/future mystic Pecos Bill lasers/Super Chief/Black Bison/Flying Fox/Manitou Raven/Silver Deer/(Winged Bison belt like winged golden ram fleece-Olympian-flocks/herds of buffalotaurs)Forge/Black Condor/Nightwolf/Chief Thunder/Turok/Bravestarr/BlackstarPaladin alternative Batman cowboy Punisher/spliced with Terraman/Deadshot/Jonah Hex/King Faraday/Slam Bradley/Tommy Monaghan/Terry Sloan/Matches Malone/Lefty Knox

Thrax Von Brighthammer- Brighthammer Living Saint/Sage Illuminatus Inquisitor/Rogue Trader

Dirk Torch-Axel Brass (Century Babies/Mystechnician)/Oliver Warbucks/Richard Henry Benson
Dollarmation Starcloak

Bruno Godkiller- Thundragoria, Neo-Primordia-life began on Earth avoid White Martians' ancient experiments so like Kryptonians plus inherit white plasma on par with Starheart/Shazam's magic lightning, Vartox/Amazo/Paragon

I ship Tim and Steph, Cassandra Cain with Connor Hawke Damian with Lian Sin or age appropriate Carrie Kelly

David gave Cass plenty of emotional support and positive reinforcement however shooting her until she learned to get out of the way and preventing her from learning language so that segment of her brain would read bodies instead qualify as abuse under any definition imaginable

Of course Bruce can go from paternal figure second only to Jonathan Kent himself to a monster who does things like lock Dick in the Batcave and force him catch and eat rats to survive in three issues depending on who's writing him

On the other hand men like him don't define the world in terms of right and wrong but strong and weak he made Cassandra strong thus to some extent he's a decent human being

Slade's wife Adeline Kane may be Bruce's cousin, Kathy Kane of Spyral, Kate Kane new Batwoman wealthy military family one of Gotham's founding families along with Waynes, Elliots, and Cobblepots, Powers


I imagine Jonathan Kent like Hub McCann from Secondhand Lions can take on four guys a quarter of his age, unarmed and still beat them "I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and tanks. I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN and loved only one woman with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"

Lori Luthor Simon Valentine


Asteroid M(s)-Krakoa- Savageland(s) Danger (Zero-Techno-organic-Technoarchy Phalanx Barbuda Builders

Most of the heroes consider Fury a good guy because the thought of him being a villain is too terrifying you will never be as bada$$ as this World War II vet from New York's Hell's Kitchen Fury started fighting the Nazis with his band of brothers the Howling Commandos first before moving onto more esoteric foes of humanity It was sometime between moving to work for the CIA and fighting a hate-ray powered clone of Adolf Hitler alongside a walking pile of rocks that Fury realized that when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. And thus has followed a several decade long Crowning Moment Of Awesome

Why he is cooler than you will ever be: He has a Flying Car, he parks this Flying Car in his Flying Base filled with Life Model Decoys and psychic spies, he's fought radioactive robots in space, he's chased a warlord to another dimension to fight psychic duels with his literal Eyepatch of Power, he's hunted Godzilla he is a Badass Normal feared by Nigh Invulnerable beings, he is feared by Nigh Invulnerable beings because he has demonstrated the "nigh" portion by killing several, he never looks at explosions, he does, however ride motorcycles through explosions while shirtless and Dual Wielding Laser Pistols, he is literally ageless, he once willingly turned himself into an Eldritch Abomination to save reality, he's beaten up Adolf Hitler on more than one occasion

Captain America Cyclops and Black Panther are Marvel's Batmen Bats even says Cap would be beat him though it would take a long time

Master of the World, Leader/Maestro, Kang Doctor Doom White Wolf/Man-Ape/Killmonger (K'Liluna), Mandarin Baron Mordo Demonicus, Tomi Shishido-The Hand, Apocalypse- Weapon Infinity/Super Skrulls all cool X-Men villains, Azazel Selene Sebastian Shaw Sinister,clones of Madelyn Pryor (Goblyn Queen) (Karasu and Sojobo-Tengu) Margali Szardos Amanda Sefton (Scarlet Witch Storm and Agatha Harkness are Earth's High Priestess together,Homo novissima Sublime/Arkea, Cassandra Nova Neo, Children of the Vault, Romulus Onslaught Pandemic Vargas High Evolutionary Kingpin- The Owl/Count Nefaria/Mr. Negative/The Hood HydraCap- Wolfgang von Strucker/Zemo/Viper, Hive/Kraken/Scorpio- Nick Fury's clones Master Man/Warrior Woman/Baron Blood

Bricklemoore twins

Maybe Dracula Vampire Kingdom on the Moon

Sentry/Taskmaster super soldier serum

The Celestials are why we have mutants and other things don't just kill humans but sometimes give them powers, they made the Eternals also

Namor- He's a mutant as well why he has wings on his ankles Atlantis

Pietro-Crystal-Attilan-Inhumans- take command of Kree Intergalactic Empire

Charles Xavier-Lilandra- Command of Shi'ar Intergalactic Empire (Kid Omega/Zen Gunnery)

Storm-Black Panther-Wakanda (Techno Organic Jungle Intergalactic Empire)

Monster Island- Archipelagos off Japan and Bermuda Triangle connect through vast passageways all across the earth through the Earth hordes of giant monsters commanded by Mole Man
4/4 c11 Guest
if you kill them you are just as bad excuse. Why frak won't writers stop bringing it up already!?

Look. There are perfectly valid logical and compassionate reasons for heroes not to kill. Just off the top of my head:
-because superheroes are technically illegal vigilantes, so it's best not to rock the boat too much by committing actions, such as homicide, that cannot be repaired;
-because villains often have unique abilities that might one day be key to saving the day (ex: Lex Luthor actually saved the world a couple of times);
-because being a superhero is incredibly stressful and at times even soul crushing, so keeping an optimistic attitude about man's inherent ability to be redeemed is good for your mental health;
-because killing a villain might accidentally cause a chain reaction wherein more villains come up to cause more harm (ex: if you kill a villain who has kids and the kids then want revenge);

I'm sure I could think of more good reasons if it were my paid job to write about the topic.

"If you kill the unrepentant mass-murderer who gleefully tried to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent people including toddlers for $#!% and giggles and will no doubt attempt to do so again, you are no better than he is" is a deeply, deeply idiotic reason.

Self defense and defense of others and mercy killings are things that deserve respect and dignity

Say that it's not acceptable to kill a threat that has already been neutralized. Do not ruin your perfectly good point by phrasing it in a way that makes you (general you) sound like a moron ("if you ever take a life for any reason you are as bad as a terrorist, no exceptions

more accurately what a powerless street vigilante has to go through. It shows more accurately what he would do to stop street level evil.

A western there is no system someone builds one, an eastern there is a crooked cop and/or other corruption but the system is reformed from the inside, a northern the system works perfectly, a southern the system is rotten to the core and has to be burned to the ground from the outside often from an outsider

It's an important term, 'Moral Courage'.
To some it means 'Willingness to sacrifice people.'
To others it means 'Willingness to stick to a code when it's obviously a bad idea.'
But 'To understand what you are doing goes against your religion, your creed or your duty. But to do it anyway because it Needs to be done for humanity.'

Morality is the knowing of good and evil.

Do not speak to me of moral duty, for I have taken up a burden greater then your own.

Courage is to experience fear, and overcome it.

Moral Courage, then is to see that something, while needed, is a terrible evil, but to overcome that fear. The quality of understanding what you are about to do is monstrous, to realize the horror that it is and be repulsed by that. To know that it will wrack you with guilt for the rest of your life, that you will some day have to account for what you are about to do, and to go through with it still.

Moral Courage is to do what needs to be done, without ever becoming callus to the things you are doing.

Because it is when you stop feeling guilt for failing in your duties that you become lax.

So when I consign millions to death, I do so not with a clear heart, but wracked by tears and guilt.
But I still consign those millions to death so that trillions may live.

Black Adam good ruler his people stand up to superheroes for him

In a world full of super powered monsters, of globe threatening crises twice a year, you think street level thugs are going to be -nicer-? To be pacified by a broken arm or a two year stretch in prison?

Batman does nothing to stop crime. For all his billions, for all his fighting of colorful maniacs, Gotham is just as bad today as the day he began.

The Punisher does nothing to stop crime. For all his killing, and his killing, and his killing, NYC is just as bad today as when he began.

The task is Sisyphean. It wears you down, body and soul.

With Batman, we get a taste of angst from time to time. A crisis of conscience here and there.

With Punisher, we see a man in hell. His obsession, of almost identical origin as Batman's, drives him ever onward. He is cold, grim, and nearly emotionless. Nearly insensate to emotional, physical, and spiritual pain.

He is superhuman, not due to the gadgets his billions buy him, or his farcical status as a paragon of human physique, intelligence, cunning, and fighting ability all at once, but that he simply able to -tolerate- the joyless, agonizing life he leads. That his mental infirmity demands of him.

Frank Castle is not as interesting a character as Bruce Wayne, but he is far more realistic. That BW is able to engage in normal, hell, subtle and nuanced, social interaction despite his neuropathology beggars belief more than any combined Batplane/submarine/space fighter. Punisher is clearly sick. He clearly suffers. He is clearly disconnected from the world.

Batman romances catburglars who look like supermodels in skin tight PVC costumes.

Batman fans want a guy who is a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist who is also the best hand to hand fighter in the world and can fight superpowered space aliens just as handily as thugs with pistols, but even -there- we find more realism at Marvel because Tony Stark, BW's opposite number in this regard, is consistently portrayed as a -tremendous- jag-off.

BW suffers unspeakable pain, fights an unwinnable fight, but stays emotionally healthy (unless it is part of a story that is quickly forgotten by the next guy).

Batman is (ties for human second) best at everything, but remains humble and grounded, nothing is better for Gotham's citizens but he gets to play king of the mountain and all he offers the average man is flowers on their graves and those of their loved ones

When it's just the Joker and the cockroaches and Bats trying to save the cockroaches

He kills people, he gets locked up, escapes, kills more people, repeat ad nauseum

You don't put a band aid on a gunshot wound, you don't keep putting band aid after band aid on a festering wound

He's never wrong and must never be questioned gag

One spoiled trust fund brat got a taste of the real world and wants to play king of the mountain but is anything better for the average Gotham citizen

I'm not saying hitting people with a shame stick solves anything but where are the real solutions to poverty

It's one thing to die a summary execution a bullet through the brain is one thing starving to death in the gutters is something else as is torture and mutiliation/crippling

Desperate people do reckless and stupid things and there is nothing you can do to stop them

False hope is as bad as despair if a stupid plan works it doesn't make it any less stupid you just got lucky and if a brilliant plan doesn't work it's still brilliant you just got unlucky

Work out logisitcs and effectiveness before expecting time money and effort

There is always someone better so learning to fight like a weakling is common sense

Serial killers have their fans and groupies as well

There are no monsters only monstrous acts

Yes it IS society's fault It's not Old Yeller's fault he's a monster but no amount hugs is going to change someone like that, there is only one thing to be done about it

If Charles Manson escaped every six months and went on a murder spree

Of course society will forgive anything if you can bribe it with enough

See the enemy you should respect or at least pity not the enemy you despise hating them won't make them weaker or dumber

Do not see greed and malice where there is only stupidity

Proper thieving, killing, and begging require just as much toil as any honest labor

Freakynomics crime doesn't pay enough

The weak/desperate do what they must to survive thieves and charlatans thugs and warlords

We don't inherit from our ancestors we rent from our descendants future generations

Other modern democracies make social programs work

Sometimes cede the battle in front of you never the fight

No fight is ever truly fair the opponent of one or an army will be stronger/faster/smarter, or have better arms or armor, training or experience, tactics or strategies, skill and talent, more comrades, or just luck

An addiction to violence/money or whatever

Extrajudicial execution political expediency


Cluemaster did kill the guy who tried to molest Steph

Scarecrow is the LEAST screwed up member of his family

Riddler's cane like the Penguin utilizes an assortment of umbrellas, particularly the Bulgarian umbrella. These usually contain weapons such as machine guns, sword tips, missiles, lasers, flamethrowers, and acid or poison gas spraying devices fired from the ferrule (however, the Penguin is able to weaponize his umbrellas in an almost unlimited variety of ways). Depending on the writer, some of his umbrellas can carry multiple weapons at once. He often carries an umbrella that can transform its canopy into a series of spinning blades: this can be used as a miniature helicopter or as an offensive weapon; he often uses this to escape a threatening situation. The canopy of the umbrella is sometimes depicted as being a bullet resistance shield, and some are patterned in different ways from a spiral capable of hypnotizing opponents to flashy signs. He can also call upon his flying birds to attack and confuse his enemies in battle bordering on magic wand

Batman admits Cobblepot is smarter than him and actually beats him two times out of three no one notices because he gets arrested when he loses and Riddler being his most intelligent adversary

Raccoon mutagen ooze

Although he often delegates the dirty work to his henchmen, he is not above taking aggressive and lethal actions on his own, especially when provoked. In spite of his appearance and stature, he is a dangerous hand-to-hand combatant with enough self-taught skills in judo, fencing, ninjutsu and bare-knuckle boxing to overwhelm attackers many times his size and physical bearing.

Cats and birds-Angelus Warriors Symbioids Selina and Cobblepot respectfully

Ghosts of Batman/5-U-93-R/Exobytes

Death (White) Bat-Demogoblin electoo finger laserguns

Shooting Star maybe like Batman of Arkham Bruce is a doctor who rehabilitates the rogues

Two-Face become anti heroic Judge

Grim Knight
Gather House of Milk and Honey
Dark Robins


Saint Hadrian's Finishing School

Big Town Council of Reeds

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