for Gorthauro Estel4/10 c30 
3Supreme-won
thank you for continuing to update this story. it's always an enjoyable read. from a psychological perspective, Sauron's reaction at the ring of judgment makes a lot of sense compared to his previous experiences being punished by Melkor. he spent so much time in Melkor's service up until this point, where his strategy of remaining silent and just agreeing paid off, so it felt very in-canon for him to have that same response now. and Yavanna's punishment was definitely an effective one: it's hard to imagine a worse punishment he could endure (besides the void). Namo acting as Aule and Yavanna's marriage counselor was pretty funny. I gasped a little when Aule told her to get out (divorce?). Sauron is creating division within Valinor even without trying. I'm especially intrigued by your depiction of Nienna. she's such a misunderstood Vala, and I'm curious what her role will be in Sauron's healing journey.
3Supreme-wonthank you for continuing to update this story. it's always an enjoyable read. from a psychological perspective, Sauron's reaction at the ring of judgment makes a lot of sense compared to his previous experiences being punished by Melkor. he spent so much time in Melkor's service up until this point, where his strategy of remaining silent and just agreeing paid off, so it felt very in-canon for him to have that same response now. and Yavanna's punishment was definitely an effective one: it's hard to imagine a worse punishment he could endure (besides the void). Namo acting as Aule and Yavanna's marriage counselor was pretty funny. I gasped a little when Aule told her to get out (divorce?). Sauron is creating division within Valinor even without trying. I'm especially intrigued by your depiction of Nienna. she's such a misunderstood Vala, and I'm curious what her role will be in Sauron's healing journey.
2/4 c30 Aeros0
First of all, I couldn't stop but chuckle out loud upon realising that you've written a Tolkien-style therapy session. Or perhaps you've let us on on what may occour in a church confessional booth? Either way, the thought of Sauron in such a situation is amusing.
On a more serious note.. at this point, I wish for Saurons redemption purely for Aulë's sake.. His sacrifice, goodness, and 'naivety' just make me care so much! Sauron.. It's time!
Also, may I be looking into it too much, or was the choice of Nienna eating pomegranate seeds a reference to the word of God? I sense various biblical parallels. Intentional or not, they are fun to discover.
Finally! Though very belated.. I wish you all the best into the new year! Good luck with your new job, your big move, and the settling into a new community.
Thank you so so much for all your work. Your chapters are always immersive, thought-provoking, and witty. I am looking forward to your future updates no matter when they'll be.
A.
First of all, I couldn't stop but chuckle out loud upon realising that you've written a Tolkien-style therapy session. Or perhaps you've let us on on what may occour in a church confessional booth? Either way, the thought of Sauron in such a situation is amusing.
On a more serious note.. at this point, I wish for Saurons redemption purely for Aulë's sake.. His sacrifice, goodness, and 'naivety' just make me care so much! Sauron.. It's time!
Also, may I be looking into it too much, or was the choice of Nienna eating pomegranate seeds a reference to the word of God? I sense various biblical parallels. Intentional or not, they are fun to discover.
Finally! Though very belated.. I wish you all the best into the new year! Good luck with your new job, your big move, and the settling into a new community.
Thank you so so much for all your work. Your chapters are always immersive, thought-provoking, and witty. I am looking forward to your future updates no matter when they'll be.
A.
1/24 c30 Al
I was thrilled to see multiple updates so quickly, and will be eagerly looking forward to the next! I hope your move and new job go perfectly for you!
I was thrilled to see multiple updates so quickly, and will be eagerly looking forward to the next! I hope your move and new job go perfectly for you!
1/20 c16 Winter Dragon
I'm not sure if I like this story or not, given the main character & the subject matter, but you've kind of hooked me. I thought the nod to the parable of the prodigal son was interesting, especially given the lack of repentance Sauron actually exhibits. Not sure if this will be AU, it wasn't clear from the notes I've seen so far, but I can't help hoping it will be. I love redemption arcs, but I still have a nagging feeling you might crush that hope.
I'm not sure if I like this story or not, given the main character & the subject matter, but you've kind of hooked me. I thought the nod to the parable of the prodigal son was interesting, especially given the lack of repentance Sauron actually exhibits. Not sure if this will be AU, it wasn't clear from the notes I've seen so far, but I can't help hoping it will be. I love redemption arcs, but I still have a nagging feeling you might crush that hope.
12/24/2024 c30 cjipad4311
Ok, honestly, this fic is amazing. Never really see anyone explore Sauron as the mc much but that could be that I’m just having trouble finding them. It is frustrating but feels so in character that Sauron’s own stubbornness and pride are repeatedly coming back to get him kicked in the groin.
Ok, honestly, this fic is amazing. Never really see anyone explore Sauron as the mc much but that could be that I’m just having trouble finding them. It is frustrating but feels so in character that Sauron’s own stubbornness and pride are repeatedly coming back to get him kicked in the groin.
12/24/2024 c28 cjipad4311
Honestly if this Yavanna bitch and her bitch friend don’t end up beheaded or in the void by the end of this story I am going to be deeply disappointed.
Honestly if this Yavanna bitch and her bitch friend don’t end up beheaded or in the void by the end of this story I am going to be deeply disappointed.
12/23/2024 c30 Windmorning
NOOOOOOO Sirenur whyyyyy
the beautiful scene of friendship a few chapters ago makes this so bad at least maia reform their fana
Also finally great to see Aule getting through to him a lil finally even if it cost him time with his wife. Have to say I'm impressed he put his money where his mouth is and fully backed up our special abhorred one. I'm wondering is their marital situation more like Yavanna is sleeping on the couch for the night(s) or is it like an actual colder separation ( obviously not divorce I know valinorians dont really do that.) except Finwe of course. Lol
I think Nienna is my favourite character she just has an aura and compassion that I can feel through reading that very few people in Arda or even RL have. I thought she was the only hope for Sauron true redemption up until Aule impressed sauron.
Also congrats on finishing Part 1 have to say it's quite rare to see a FF of this caliber that manages to actually see completion. I know it's a hobby and writers should only continue if they're enjoying doing so, but still great to see FFs like these reach fulfillment. Good luck on part 2 and 3, and your move ! Can't imagine what the logistical nightmare of moving 2000 miles is like but at least it seems ur not moving countries.
NOOOOOOO Sirenur whyyyyy
the beautiful scene of friendship a few chapters ago makes this so bad at least maia reform their fana
Also finally great to see Aule getting through to him a lil finally even if it cost him time with his wife. Have to say I'm impressed he put his money where his mouth is and fully backed up our special abhorred one. I'm wondering is their marital situation more like Yavanna is sleeping on the couch for the night(s) or is it like an actual colder separation ( obviously not divorce I know valinorians dont really do that.) except Finwe of course. Lol
I think Nienna is my favourite character she just has an aura and compassion that I can feel through reading that very few people in Arda or even RL have. I thought she was the only hope for Sauron true redemption up until Aule impressed sauron.
Also congrats on finishing Part 1 have to say it's quite rare to see a FF of this caliber that manages to actually see completion. I know it's a hobby and writers should only continue if they're enjoying doing so, but still great to see FFs like these reach fulfillment. Good luck on part 2 and 3, and your move ! Can't imagine what the logistical nightmare of moving 2000 miles is like but at least it seems ur not moving countries.
12/20/2024 c30 Saeth Ceirwyn
Wow, it has been a ride! Amazing we're finished with part 1, and eagerly awaiting part 2! You mange to continuously surprise me with twists and turns!
The ending is chilling, but about what I expected. I knew something bad had happened to Sirenur, and it’s only to be expected Mairon was part of that. Of course, it’s in the bag of traumatic memories with the others. It also stands to reason Mairon objects so little to being hurt or punished because he feels guilt he’s buried over some of the things he’s done. Sure his pride objects, but I think his conscience is at war with it.
I’m starting to think making Mairon forget, something that seems to be a property of Shadow, is part of what Mairon wanted from the domain in the first place. He’s literally hiding his own memories from himself, which if you want to have flaws to be like everyone else (would be the only way something perfect could do it).
Not surprised to see Yavanna getting kicked out due to being cruel. after this. It’s a very Aule thing to do. Ironically, she’s doing the Mairon thing that got him in trouble, and eventually, this will likely result in a conversation between them about this (and hopefully some uncomfortable realizations).
Aule and Nienna have teamed up in figuring out how to approach this. That’s good, because Nienna has the skills Aule tends to be a bit clueless about in this situation. Poor Aule is blaming himself too hard, but we all know things are going to get better for him in the future. He’s too much of a marshmallow for Mairon to hate.
As for Nienna, someone is being coy here. Really coy. She’s almost teasing him and turning this into a game. Mairon did sort of open up to her a bit more in letter her see him and his thoughts a bit more. I laughed that he wants pets again, but cats are like that. Apparently, he’s a Nienna cat. I’m starting to think she learned the Melkor Shadow game during her time around him, and knows how to tease with it.
Wow, it has been a ride! Amazing we're finished with part 1, and eagerly awaiting part 2! You mange to continuously surprise me with twists and turns!
The ending is chilling, but about what I expected. I knew something bad had happened to Sirenur, and it’s only to be expected Mairon was part of that. Of course, it’s in the bag of traumatic memories with the others. It also stands to reason Mairon objects so little to being hurt or punished because he feels guilt he’s buried over some of the things he’s done. Sure his pride objects, but I think his conscience is at war with it.
I’m starting to think making Mairon forget, something that seems to be a property of Shadow, is part of what Mairon wanted from the domain in the first place. He’s literally hiding his own memories from himself, which if you want to have flaws to be like everyone else (would be the only way something perfect could do it).
Not surprised to see Yavanna getting kicked out due to being cruel. after this. It’s a very Aule thing to do. Ironically, she’s doing the Mairon thing that got him in trouble, and eventually, this will likely result in a conversation between them about this (and hopefully some uncomfortable realizations).
Aule and Nienna have teamed up in figuring out how to approach this. That’s good, because Nienna has the skills Aule tends to be a bit clueless about in this situation. Poor Aule is blaming himself too hard, but we all know things are going to get better for him in the future. He’s too much of a marshmallow for Mairon to hate.
As for Nienna, someone is being coy here. Really coy. She’s almost teasing him and turning this into a game. Mairon did sort of open up to her a bit more in letter her see him and his thoughts a bit more. I laughed that he wants pets again, but cats are like that. Apparently, he’s a Nienna cat. I’m starting to think she learned the Melkor Shadow game during her time around him, and knows how to tease with it.
12/20/2024 c30 DOOMRAIDER
Something that could be interesting is Sauron at first being uneasy then angry and finally furious at someone that closely resembles the old him but this person unlike him did not give up and stayed on the straight and narrow path or held onto a belief that made up one of the core parts of himself despite so much hardship that came with it. In a way Sauron is starting to be ready for this to happen with all the recent developments happening taking a toll on his mind like his anger at the world that he wanted to fix but failed to his feelings of resentment towards Aule that he could not have noticed his growing wavering and darkness when he was younger and how his former lord couldn’t save him then and at present can’t seem to help him now in Sauron mind. Now all that remains is to have there be someone that Sauron sees as similar to a younger version as himself. It’s interesting when this happens in stories and a character that was once so in control starts to crack by seeing their enemy despite going through similar hard challenges didn’t give up like they did completely infuriates them.
It’s interesting that in this story it was shown how Sauron kept seeing disorder and destruction then kept focusing on this so much that he was ignoring all the good things there still were even after Morgoth’s destructions to the world. How people see the world can depend on the type of person like how an artist who enters a building will see things like support pillars but how things are designed and admire the architecture itself rather then how it keeps the building up as opposed to like a soldier who when they enter they building they see where defensible positions are and escape routes. Sauron can be compared to a builder who enjoys his work and wants a stable foundation so when he sees cracks and the potential for ruining the whole design he can’t stand that which is what he started seeing in the word after so much destruction happened. In a way Yavanna is starting to see things like Sauron did before his fall by starting to heavily focus on the bad which in this case is Sauron who many consider Morgoth’s darkness reaching Valinor and she can not stand it leading her deciding that drastic measures must be taken which is what Sauron did to achieve order in the world. “In my story, Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery.” (J.R.R. Tolkien) This is actually one of the biggest reasons people can become well intentioned utilitarians and then from that point are capable of not just stepping over a line that should not be crossed but also easily capable of jumping over it with disastrous consequences for not only themselves but everyone else.
With how the plants were in terrible shape combined with how Yavanna was I think this was knowingly or unknowingly done by her. It’s a good bet on unknowingly and if true this could be the prelude to what can happen to the other Valar that corrupt their purpose and let hatred consume them and how it won’t affect just them and their relationships but their very domain as well.
Something that could be interesting is Sauron at first being uneasy then angry and finally furious at someone that closely resembles the old him but this person unlike him did not give up and stayed on the straight and narrow path or held onto a belief that made up one of the core parts of himself despite so much hardship that came with it. In a way Sauron is starting to be ready for this to happen with all the recent developments happening taking a toll on his mind like his anger at the world that he wanted to fix but failed to his feelings of resentment towards Aule that he could not have noticed his growing wavering and darkness when he was younger and how his former lord couldn’t save him then and at present can’t seem to help him now in Sauron mind. Now all that remains is to have there be someone that Sauron sees as similar to a younger version as himself. It’s interesting when this happens in stories and a character that was once so in control starts to crack by seeing their enemy despite going through similar hard challenges didn’t give up like they did completely infuriates them.
It’s interesting that in this story it was shown how Sauron kept seeing disorder and destruction then kept focusing on this so much that he was ignoring all the good things there still were even after Morgoth’s destructions to the world. How people see the world can depend on the type of person like how an artist who enters a building will see things like support pillars but how things are designed and admire the architecture itself rather then how it keeps the building up as opposed to like a soldier who when they enter they building they see where defensible positions are and escape routes. Sauron can be compared to a builder who enjoys his work and wants a stable foundation so when he sees cracks and the potential for ruining the whole design he can’t stand that which is what he started seeing in the word after so much destruction happened. In a way Yavanna is starting to see things like Sauron did before his fall by starting to heavily focus on the bad which in this case is Sauron who many consider Morgoth’s darkness reaching Valinor and she can not stand it leading her deciding that drastic measures must be taken which is what Sauron did to achieve order in the world. “In my story, Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery.” (J.R.R. Tolkien) This is actually one of the biggest reasons people can become well intentioned utilitarians and then from that point are capable of not just stepping over a line that should not be crossed but also easily capable of jumping over it with disastrous consequences for not only themselves but everyone else.
With how the plants were in terrible shape combined with how Yavanna was I think this was knowingly or unknowingly done by her. It’s a good bet on unknowingly and if true this could be the prelude to what can happen to the other Valar that corrupt their purpose and let hatred consume them and how it won’t affect just them and their relationships but their very domain as well.
12/19/2024 c30 Guest
Oh hell. Now Yavanna has another reason to hate Sauron. He destroyed her marriage!
Oh hell. Now Yavanna has another reason to hate Sauron. He destroyed her marriage!
12/3/2024 c29 Windmorning
Wow... the second hand embarrassment when the curumos maia friends showed up was so intense I had to click off and calm down for a few min
Honestly though even though Eonwe is doing the "morally correct" thing I would def throw a tomato at Sauron he literally tortured people surely he can deal with being tied up and made fun of for a day
I mean didnt he grab a hot iron ? and then tomato to face means he starts crying hes kind of a big baby lol
Also Aüle needs to wake up I wonder how gracious he would feel to Sauron if he was tortured by him imagine arguing with your wife about the feelings of the Black Captain I guess thats the inherent Patron Vala - maia love though we wouldnt understand
Wow... the second hand embarrassment when the curumos maia friends showed up was so intense I had to click off and calm down for a few min
Honestly though even though Eonwe is doing the "morally correct" thing I would def throw a tomato at Sauron he literally tortured people surely he can deal with being tied up and made fun of for a day
I mean didnt he grab a hot iron ? and then tomato to face means he starts crying hes kind of a big baby lol
Also Aüle needs to wake up I wonder how gracious he would feel to Sauron if he was tortured by him imagine arguing with your wife about the feelings of the Black Captain I guess thats the inherent Patron Vala - maia love though we wouldnt understand
11/29/2024 c29 DOOMRAIDER
Something that would be interesting is Yavanna driving herself crazy trying to figure out what Sauron is up to and Sauron recognizing the growing wedge she is putting between herself and others because of her hatred of him and decides to take a more passive approach like he has been doing so far with her plants subtly affecting people. Radagast actually is the perfect candidate to have Sauron get his revenge of Yavanna since Radagast is willing to talk to and engage with Sauron along with him being a Maia of Yavanna and if Yavanna sees Sauron spending more time with Radagast then her determination to figure out what Sauron is up to will leave her more likely to make a mistake in trying to stop Sauron. Plants having a part to play in a story isn’t really seen unless it is specifically about them or some kind of significant thing in the story like post apocalyptic stories about how things went bad because of viruses in certain plants but I always find it interesting when something that seems insignificant plays a big role in the story and this was shown in Star Wars when an Imperial Intelligence source code name Delta Source gave such important information on New Republic information was a tree of all things and surprisingly in real life plants have been studied by Cleve Backster in order to try and solve crimes by having plants be witnesses though this research got no where in regards to solving crimes when the man died but in this story plants can be more forthcoming in regards to communication (shown when Sauron tried to help Yavanna with planting but was terrible at listening as opposed to her who could hear the plants much better) as opposed to Cleve Backster trying to get communication from plants in real life. It’s actually hilarious if one thinks about it that so many people were tearing their hairs out from not only the Empire who were not Thrawn since only he knew but the New Republic by trying to figure out who (in this case what) was getting the information to the Empire when the answer was a tree of all things. The episode from the Penguins of Madagascar “Our Man in Grrfurjiclestan” shows in a comedic tone how things can go nuts when people start going crazy with paranoia and can’t figure out what is going on. Sauron and Yavanna have now gotten into the ship of SS Paranoia and both are under great scrutiny so any future crimes will be very difficult to perform.
Yavanna is in dangerous territory with the belief that she knows best. I’ve met people like that and trying to convince them of other ways is like arguing with a brick wall. While having this mindset on something is bad if the person refuses to even listen to other ideas when there are actually other good ideas it gets worse when the person in question starts thinking they are the only one who can do something which while Yavanna isn’t there yet but she is edging closer towards it. Ironically Yavanna hasn’t realized how much like Morgoth she is acting by disregarding the laws in place to complete her objective and thinking she knows best along with not considering how those who care for her would feel for how much darker her actions are. “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you”. (Friedrich Nietzsche) While something small can have a big effect for good things to happen unfortunately the same goes for something small bringing great evil as well like what Adam and Eve did when eating that fruit. As shown in this story when Melkor was once good (or if that part with Manwe and himself creating new things he was starting to fall to darkness then in Silmarillion when in the beginning he was once innocent) eventually Melkor starting down the dark path and now Yavanna through this act is starting to alienate others in her pursuit to destroy Sauron which is something she noted Morgoth of doing by separating himself from others which made trying to help Morgorth impossible since no one was there to call him out on what he was doing along with wanting to help him. That isolation thought Yavanna had when thinking of Melkor along with Eonwe bringing up isolation to Sauron when Morgoth was imprisoned in the beginning of this story and Aule even pointing out Sauron isolating himself from everyone might be hinting to something probably along the lines of how isolation and growing darker emotions can twist someone and this is a topic that has happened in stories like Transformers Megatronus Prime where one of his backstories involved him starting to feel isolated and angry at the other Primes under the belief they thought he was starting to resemble Unicron since his warring impulses like immense passion and ruthlessness separated him from the other Primes and could make him dangerous if not reigned in. One of the biggest differences between Yavanna and Morgoth’s secret and eventual open darkness in their hearts is that Morgoth never knew an example of someone when he was innocent at the beginning of time that fell into darkness and the suffering that can follow because of it (though he likely would have still taken the risk if he had known an example thinking he could win in the end) as opposed to Yavanna who does know of people that fell to darkness but rather then learn the important lesson this can teach people she is ignoring history. Unfortunately many terrible things could have been avoided throughout history if people had learned from the mistakes of the past but this is easier said then done.
Something that wouldn’t surprise me happening is Sauron finally confessing to someone (likely Eonwe or Wilwarien or that Elf) when emotions are running high that Sauron didn’t experience pain but agony under Morgoth and like everyone else he begged in the beginning for him to have mercy and stop only to learn that the way for the torture to stop is to take the pain. The shock of the description and what would follow is likely to be similar to the parts in a story where the protagonist who usually keeps things close to the chest and is calm on the outside but inside has great turmoil. This can happen with soldiers who have PTSD and while someone might have an iron will that doesn’t stop the trauma that they might have gone through and how it can manifest could vary through hallucinations or going back in your memory to a traumatic experience when stress is extremely high and their spirits are weak can happen.
This part in the story where people want to punish Sauron (Yavanna in particular wanting him to fall) and with some not being able to figure out the best way to make it really hurt reminds me of the story of Job when Satan couldn’t break the man and was no doubt getting desperate when he proposed physical pain would be what brings the man low when someone like that would have rightfully guessed that what would really hurt Job is through his family. In a way many people would rather go through physical pain if it meant they could correct a mistake or terrible event that happens in the past because those people suffer far longer thinking “what if.” A good example of this is the mistaken saying of “Sticks and stones may break my bones. But words shall never hurt me.” because what is once spoken can never be undone and I assume that in this story Yavanna will say something likely to Aule or someone she cares about something so terrible that once the words leave her mouth she will instantly regret it. The aftermath would have her wishing she could take it back but can’t and she would feel terrible. Or she gets so worked up she yells out her crimes then instantly regrets saying that but realizes it’s to late and the secret she wanted to keep hidden is out. In a way her composure is already faltering as shown in the chapter with her argument with Aule so a good question is if she finally explodes how many people will hear her.
Something that would be interesting is Yavanna driving herself crazy trying to figure out what Sauron is up to and Sauron recognizing the growing wedge she is putting between herself and others because of her hatred of him and decides to take a more passive approach like he has been doing so far with her plants subtly affecting people. Radagast actually is the perfect candidate to have Sauron get his revenge of Yavanna since Radagast is willing to talk to and engage with Sauron along with him being a Maia of Yavanna and if Yavanna sees Sauron spending more time with Radagast then her determination to figure out what Sauron is up to will leave her more likely to make a mistake in trying to stop Sauron. Plants having a part to play in a story isn’t really seen unless it is specifically about them or some kind of significant thing in the story like post apocalyptic stories about how things went bad because of viruses in certain plants but I always find it interesting when something that seems insignificant plays a big role in the story and this was shown in Star Wars when an Imperial Intelligence source code name Delta Source gave such important information on New Republic information was a tree of all things and surprisingly in real life plants have been studied by Cleve Backster in order to try and solve crimes by having plants be witnesses though this research got no where in regards to solving crimes when the man died but in this story plants can be more forthcoming in regards to communication (shown when Sauron tried to help Yavanna with planting but was terrible at listening as opposed to her who could hear the plants much better) as opposed to Cleve Backster trying to get communication from plants in real life. It’s actually hilarious if one thinks about it that so many people were tearing their hairs out from not only the Empire who were not Thrawn since only he knew but the New Republic by trying to figure out who (in this case what) was getting the information to the Empire when the answer was a tree of all things. The episode from the Penguins of Madagascar “Our Man in Grrfurjiclestan” shows in a comedic tone how things can go nuts when people start going crazy with paranoia and can’t figure out what is going on. Sauron and Yavanna have now gotten into the ship of SS Paranoia and both are under great scrutiny so any future crimes will be very difficult to perform.
Yavanna is in dangerous territory with the belief that she knows best. I’ve met people like that and trying to convince them of other ways is like arguing with a brick wall. While having this mindset on something is bad if the person refuses to even listen to other ideas when there are actually other good ideas it gets worse when the person in question starts thinking they are the only one who can do something which while Yavanna isn’t there yet but she is edging closer towards it. Ironically Yavanna hasn’t realized how much like Morgoth she is acting by disregarding the laws in place to complete her objective and thinking she knows best along with not considering how those who care for her would feel for how much darker her actions are. “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you”. (Friedrich Nietzsche) While something small can have a big effect for good things to happen unfortunately the same goes for something small bringing great evil as well like what Adam and Eve did when eating that fruit. As shown in this story when Melkor was once good (or if that part with Manwe and himself creating new things he was starting to fall to darkness then in Silmarillion when in the beginning he was once innocent) eventually Melkor starting down the dark path and now Yavanna through this act is starting to alienate others in her pursuit to destroy Sauron which is something she noted Morgoth of doing by separating himself from others which made trying to help Morgorth impossible since no one was there to call him out on what he was doing along with wanting to help him. That isolation thought Yavanna had when thinking of Melkor along with Eonwe bringing up isolation to Sauron when Morgoth was imprisoned in the beginning of this story and Aule even pointing out Sauron isolating himself from everyone might be hinting to something probably along the lines of how isolation and growing darker emotions can twist someone and this is a topic that has happened in stories like Transformers Megatronus Prime where one of his backstories involved him starting to feel isolated and angry at the other Primes under the belief they thought he was starting to resemble Unicron since his warring impulses like immense passion and ruthlessness separated him from the other Primes and could make him dangerous if not reigned in. One of the biggest differences between Yavanna and Morgoth’s secret and eventual open darkness in their hearts is that Morgoth never knew an example of someone when he was innocent at the beginning of time that fell into darkness and the suffering that can follow because of it (though he likely would have still taken the risk if he had known an example thinking he could win in the end) as opposed to Yavanna who does know of people that fell to darkness but rather then learn the important lesson this can teach people she is ignoring history. Unfortunately many terrible things could have been avoided throughout history if people had learned from the mistakes of the past but this is easier said then done.
Something that wouldn’t surprise me happening is Sauron finally confessing to someone (likely Eonwe or Wilwarien or that Elf) when emotions are running high that Sauron didn’t experience pain but agony under Morgoth and like everyone else he begged in the beginning for him to have mercy and stop only to learn that the way for the torture to stop is to take the pain. The shock of the description and what would follow is likely to be similar to the parts in a story where the protagonist who usually keeps things close to the chest and is calm on the outside but inside has great turmoil. This can happen with soldiers who have PTSD and while someone might have an iron will that doesn’t stop the trauma that they might have gone through and how it can manifest could vary through hallucinations or going back in your memory to a traumatic experience when stress is extremely high and their spirits are weak can happen.
This part in the story where people want to punish Sauron (Yavanna in particular wanting him to fall) and with some not being able to figure out the best way to make it really hurt reminds me of the story of Job when Satan couldn’t break the man and was no doubt getting desperate when he proposed physical pain would be what brings the man low when someone like that would have rightfully guessed that what would really hurt Job is through his family. In a way many people would rather go through physical pain if it meant they could correct a mistake or terrible event that happens in the past because those people suffer far longer thinking “what if.” A good example of this is the mistaken saying of “Sticks and stones may break my bones. But words shall never hurt me.” because what is once spoken can never be undone and I assume that in this story Yavanna will say something likely to Aule or someone she cares about something so terrible that once the words leave her mouth she will instantly regret it. The aftermath would have her wishing she could take it back but can’t and she would feel terrible. Or she gets so worked up she yells out her crimes then instantly regrets saying that but realizes it’s to late and the secret she wanted to keep hidden is out. In a way her composure is already faltering as shown in the chapter with her argument with Aule so a good question is if she finally explodes how many people will hear her.
11/17/2024 c28 Aeros0
Ohh this was a great read! I love the parallel you drew between the punishment of Valar and that of Morgoth. Though Morgoth's punishment is certainly more brutal, I hate to admit it, but Yavanna strikes me as the more cruel one. Whilst the Valar and Morgoth seek to punish Sauron, they do hope for his improvement. After all it has been once said: every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.
As evil as we know him to have been, Sauron's resignation was painful to read. That air of proud defiance has at last been suppressed. Now we are dangerously close to an empty shell. I am excited to see what you've planned regarding his response to punishment. Defiance? Resignation? Anger? Depression?
I'll leave that up to you.
Thank you and good night
A.
Ohh this was a great read! I love the parallel you drew between the punishment of Valar and that of Morgoth. Though Morgoth's punishment is certainly more brutal, I hate to admit it, but Yavanna strikes me as the more cruel one. Whilst the Valar and Morgoth seek to punish Sauron, they do hope for his improvement. After all it has been once said: every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.
As evil as we know him to have been, Sauron's resignation was painful to read. That air of proud defiance has at last been suppressed. Now we are dangerously close to an empty shell. I am excited to see what you've planned regarding his response to punishment. Defiance? Resignation? Anger? Depression?
I'll leave that up to you.
Thank you and good night
A.
11/13/2024 c28 FireBirdFalcon
On todays episode of The Máhanaxar: We’re serving *divorce papers!*
Great chapter. I fell in love with this story years ago and am so delighted you came back to it!
On todays episode of The Máhanaxar: We’re serving *divorce papers!*
Great chapter. I fell in love with this story years ago and am so delighted you came back to it!