RE:RE:'crulty to animals'
i refused to do the frog disection in science class from the begining of the year, said that i wouldent kill or hurt a live animal EVER, then later the teacher lied to me saying that the animals died and from natural causes and then presurved, but then on the day i noticed that nothing seemed wrong with them,i asked again and she told the truth, that they were bread and held in captivity with no hope to a future or other fate,and they had never seen the outside of a cage there entire lives, then put into a room and gassed just like the people in the halicost! i mean realy! you hear it happening to hundreds of people and say "thats horrible,how can anyone be so heartless and cruel?!" but then you hear it happening to an innosent,poor creature that never had a chance and then all you hear is "thats what they were bread for,anyway its not like its happening here,thats happening far off and by people who know what there doing,its perfectly leagal" i mean seriusly! when i heard that they were bread and gassed in captivity i refused and did the virtual disection. its on the computer, five minets later the two others i was supposed to disect with joined me,saying they couldent handle the sight of the frogs, let alone hurting them.
To be honest, we don't do that in sweden (whick I am truly glad for). I only remeber once when our teacher had been fishing and brought his catch with him to the class so that we could watch when he cut it opend (it was so big it had to be at least a few years old).
And now, when I'm studying in a vet. assistant school we get to do it on pigs that died natrually (out teacher get them at a farmer, and she is such a "nature actevist" that you have to belive her when she says that they should have had a good life at that place...
I agree totaly with what you say; that no animal should be given such an exictence (it's not worthy to be called a life), but still, I think that just beeing gased to death sounds better than beeng experimented on just so that we can get new versions of make up...
yes, but it is still an empty, controled exsestance that should be shown as such and not a step in an exparement
I hope that people soon will get how outright stupid it is to even do such anymore; you did it on a computer, right? Then why can't all do it, a school should have computers enough!
we have more than enouph computers, about four rooms full and then two classes worth of computers in the library, but you want to know what? they arent even incuraging the students to go vertual, and when you do you have to wright a full page essay on what you saw, and the grade of the essay is put in place of the lab grade! i mean if you think about it, crulty to animals is practicaly horible extreame racist behavior. how is this and better that what hitlor did to jews? you wanna know the only difference? the creatures beeing hurt happened to be our spesies. thats it. the only thing is they are human. do you want to know why people ever condone crulty to animals? when theyre little its introduced in small amounts as humane to kill withought torture, and that they dont matter. LIKE HELL THEY DONT! do you know that on the street i grew up on theyre was a boy named john, and he hurt animals and i would see the poor animals he hurt and i asked how he could do that. you wanna know what he did? he cought a toad that was going by, faced me, and tore the legs right off the poor creatures body. i never knew how he could do it, and i ran. i told my mom and she was horrified and we whent off to tell his mom. do you wanna know what she said when se found out? she started talking about how jhon dident realy do anything wrong and that i sholdent freak out it was just a frog and "dont wory,the legs will grow back".i never looked at jhon the same again. and ive always thought he was a sick person. but you know whats the werst part? i was 8 when that happened. he was about 11. if hes doing things like that then, what will he do when hes older?
To be honest I feel sort of sorry for that John, I mean it has to be someone who taught him to be like that...
And about this with your frogs, I'd like to ask your teacher why the hell they encourage children to become murderers...
I thinks your right, it is quite a bit like second world war the only differrences is the numbers (the poor frogs have to be millions more) and that noboyd cares enough to do anything about it. I don't know how old you guys are when you start with such, and it doesn't really matter. At whatever age you know that teachers are the ones you should trust, since they are the ones who gives you knowledge about everything you need to know. So when they say it's okay to do this you probably start believeing them.
Frogs in Sweden are lucky, they are so few it's even illegal to take them home to have as a pet in a jar...
it starts by everyone disecting owl pelletts is 6th grade, and then now in 7th grade we disect frogs, im 13 (14 june 30th) and i couldent stand it. whats werse is in my class me and my 2 firends are the only ones who refused, but i heard some other students dident but you wanna know what got me? she dident even introduce them as evan options to consider, her almost exact words were "we are dicecting frogs on friday in relation to our human body unit becouse frogs inturnal organs are as close to humans we can allow middle schoolers to disect withought bringing in mammals becouse thats illigal- (gets into LONG explanation of saftey around sharp objects and equiptment and such-10 minnets l8r-) so remmember the rules and to wear non-open toed shoes on friday otherwise you will have to go up to ether the 7th grade bilding computer lab or the library to take the virtual disection and you`ll have to write a full page report on what you witnessed" like it was a punishment for being forgetfull! i mean im sorry but WTF?!
Honeslty I think you should tell someone about that like the principal or someone at power, since it is quite disturbing. We bother to cook food to vegitarians in school, so why force the same students to play Jack the Ripper if there is alternetives. If she just had said it in a differend way I'm sure that more students would have done it the same way as you. (It's like she wanted you to pick animals to pices)
i know! but i cant go to the principal becouse shes predudiced. she dosent like pagans, and shes suposed to be one of the most powerful principles in the distrect, and she dosent like me becouse i have things on her and a few other teachers that could take their jobs, and so i cant do anything untill i go to highschool the year after next, right now her and my mom are locked in a legal battle (my mom`s winning!)
Well, that's good (tell your mom to keep on and fight, it's worth it!), but other people than your pricipal are at the power. Such a thing as this is somehting you can complin about to the school-minister (I would say it's that bad), it's just to write a letter or make one phonecall, and it might make difference (if it don't you still can tell youreself that you tried)
...school minister? you mean 'admenistrater'? well at this point with the thing with my mom and the principal, i cant get the distrect 5 school board on it untill things cool down, and by then i dont have much of a case unless they ask us to disect somthing else next year, you know?
Sorry about my speling and al (I was so tired I translated it right off .). Then can't you ask those other two in your class who also did it on computer to do something? And if nothing else, just talk around so that the kids which will do it next year will know that they don't really have to (I think it'll be a relife for them), and so that people start to realise what's going on (if nothing else some poeple might hear you talk and spread it on...).
Anyway, good luck, I think you'll need it...
yeah no kidding, and i am trying to spread it
Good. It's quite chocking, but the main-reason people still is cruel to animals, by furs and eat bushmeat is that they don't know, not that they don't care! When I try to talk to people about animals I often forget that they havn't studied the same things as I have, and I just confuse them more...
i know! i mean seriusly do they thing the people kept the poor animals in a happy hotel until they died naturaly and magicly tured whatever they took into sellable items? um, NO!
Accually I think they do, how stupid it ever sounds...
what do people even get off hurting animals? are thy just bord?
Maybe (I'm just guessing) it's just like watching humans fight, I mean we look at all these sprrts where people only fight, and that's fun(?)! But when it comes to animals I guess they just never learnd that they do feel pain.
It's a bit like something they did in africa; they took hunters (which had been hunting animals in the wild, like elephants and monkeys) from a jail and took them to some sort of zoo where they could meet the animals they had been hunting. All of them just broke down (they had just seen them afar, when they came up to the animal it was alwas dead) and all of them said they'll never hunt again. Just because they never had seen the animals close up and seen how kind and nice they are, the hunters could shoot at them and kill them. But when they realised that it's a living creature they all changed point of wiev...
but isent it awful it took that to know? to see a living creature and think it an expendible object...i can honestly think that is the most inhuman thing in the world.
No, it's exactly what a human is. We are too inteligent for our own good. We know how to block out feelings, come up with excuses and resons to blame it on others. To be called a human is form my point of wiev one of the worst insults ever. Animals don't kill for fun, they don't use others lives for stupid experiments, they don't care about outer space. They live thir lives perfectly fine in harmony with nature just as they were supposed to. Humans have no place in the world anymore, we destroy too much. It was a mistake by the evolution to give us our brain, a bery bad mistake. We don't need all therse things we have today; pencils in different colours, junkfood, plastic-toys... We don't need to know if Big Bang created the universe, because it will never affect our lives if we know it or not. and were taking everything else with us. and then when were gone all we can do is hope nobody makes our mistake, but the thing is we can only control ourselves, and when we finaly comprehend what weve done it will be far to late. so unless we kick it to overdrive and forget being as ignorently blissful and deff to the silent cries of the creatures around us as possible, we will be rememberd as evil itself. pritty deep for a 13 year old huh? XD
i know what you mean but my point is the resons behind it, we have our brains and intelegence levals so we can help animals, prevent natural disasters, but then we get to thinking 'well why did this happen so it wont happen again?' so we try and eventualy find things out, then we think 'well if this happened...becouse of this...then what else are we missing?' becouse nobody wants to be helpless, we serch for control for peace of mind, and the first way to have control of somthing is to know whats happening around you and how it works, that helps for a wile, but then we think 'but are these things unstopable? are we weak commpared to them? are we unnesicary? insignificant? are we as defecless to the universe as the marbles in a omnipresent game of pinball? whos in control of this game?' so we see if we can change somthing. small at first, like create somthing the world has never seen. we then feel powerful,superior, and see how our influence effects the world, then beyond when we are aware of its igsistance,then we think 'mabye we are in control of this game, and we never knew' this comfurts us and then we see others as below us, and it stays that way. we dont see our mistakes untill they are habits we cant stop, habits we`ve tought to children and other people, and unless we start to use our intelagence agenst what we`ve done, to right it, we slowly destroy ourselves.
and you're probably right, in some way we learn, but not always. If it worked exactly so well we would have learnd at the very first war not to do things like that, when we realised that what we use to protect plants from insects with is poison to the whole nature we should have stopped using it, but we didn't. Some might learn from mistakes, but far from all do, and sadly enough those who never learn often end up with power...
thats becouse the ones who learn from mistaks become handycaped in a way the others arent, they have to strive in a healthy and almost paranoid way wile the rest simply do what they want and make money. the reson we dident learn from the first war is becouse sombody won. and then everyone thinks 'to avoid all this, to avoid all the consequences, all i have to be is the strongest' and you know from my previous million-year rant what happens after wanting to be the strongest...EVERYTHING DiiiiiiES!
I f you have all these idiotic fights like we do, yes. In nature tehre is no great armys which destroys all in it's way; if two fight for power they fight themselves (would like to see Bush do that!) and don't involve the whole contery. Yes, they can fight in groups, but then it is to the point of giving up, not taking prisoners and torturing them. Neither do they have anything like revenge... i saw a documentory about it. ants are almost exacly like humans, they have worker ants, digger ants, ants for every job in the hill, and then a queen, and they also have real wars with other ants if they feel theyre to close or invading their area. in fact, humans have studied theyre formatons in these ant wars to help and use in their military tacktics. infact, after the wars one of three things always happened, ether 1~~ of them is completly destroyed with ether few or no survivers, 2~~ the feud is settled and they ether murge or leave eachother alone, or 3~~ the ants actulay make the losers slaves. and as for revenge i dont know they probubly do, but im not an ant so i dont know.
your wrong.
im serious, they make them do the grudge work and jobs no one else wants. ants also have pets. ants have pet aphids, they feed them, water them, play with them, and make them toys.
that's cool, I had no idea. And people say inescts doesn't have ny brains... Just to chec since you really seem to know; Sure it would be nice to have a queen rule, or at least a female for a change. But I hope ants never become inteligent and begin to build weapons... 2~~ if it was a major threat then they may choose to destroy them all, otherwise they only fight until theres not much of a point anymore, or until the other side givs up then leave or take control 3~~ yes, thats usualy what starts the wars in the first place 4~~ they already do. but they are usualy to stop enimy ants not people.
When one side won did they make slaves of ALL the lousers, or just the soldiers?
Did they kill everyone one the enermyside if they could, even those who wasn't soliders?
If they could steele things without killing, would they?
1~~ depends, every situation is different even if its basicaly the same
Anyway; it isn't just when it comes to the wars we have (which is scarieer then the ants, I promise; an investigation showed that more children than soldiers die in war), we outright destroy nature, which I can't see that any animal do. They don't cut down whole forests just to get oil, they don't ruin the air for the whole planet, and the for sure don't create radioactive stuff just to get electricity...
(Sorry if I seem stubborn and all, but I am, I just can't accept that I'm wrong sometimes...)
well maby you should. gorrilla`s make huge clearings pulling up any plants they can get there hands on to make a new bedding area EVERY NIGHT ants can strip a tree of leaves in about 3 days and a full cow in 2 if they want eliphants charge and attack anything that it feels is a threat and often kill whatever dident get away bees have been known to swarm and cause everything in a fild size area to die painful deaths also bees (i forgot the reson i think it was if they dident have enouph food) they have been known to rip another bee`s wings off and throw them out the hive to die tetra fish when they lay eggs go around and eat all the eggs of others they can find so the only fish to be born will be theirs and there wont be any competition rino`s will kill anything so there wont be food competition ants have been known to keep a speshal reserve of rain water so that if enemy ANYTHING got into the hill they could pull the trigger,trap them, and drown them all locests (cant spell, its those flying grasshopper things the egyiptions had problums with) swarm feilds eating everything and killing animals and even humans, leaving a deserted waistland behind and humans kill you for a klondyke bar ( XD )
Humans cut (and is still cutting) down rainforests, and we clean away about an area as big as a football-field every minute. That is more than any gorilla do, they don't chop down compleatley (and when the earth of the rainforest get hit by the sunlight the bacterias and all in it dies, so the forest can never grow back, the earth is dead).
I understand that some animals can be horrible, but that depends on who's point f wiev you look from; the ants themselves is probably quite happy that they can have managed to come up with something to defend them.
But nothing that they do leave such markings in the enviroment as the things humans come up with. Sure, it can be our "natrual behaviour" to explore and try out new things, but we know that some things we do is wrong, there are alternatives, and we could easy work things out, but we don't. We kill animals for their shells, or whatever, even if we know that they soon will be gone if we continue like that...
(I know i can go on forever, but I won't bore you out. To be honest, I think we'll never agree on this matter...)
i know what people can do is awful, but the thing is, part of it is the larger an animal, the more it can destroy and often does, and the more of an animal there are that are organized together the even more they destroy. we are one of the few animals in the world that have it all three ways, were tall and fast, we have huge numbers, and every human is somwhat organized with all the others. throw in our high intelegence and youve got a few billion walking time-bombs. oops...i just exploded brains on my sister. XD
(poor sister...) Now I'll probably go into a long ranting, if you don't want to read it, that's fine; To put it short; the planet isn't in danger, we are. We never had the power to destroy the world, but we might have the power to save ourselves.
The thing to me is that we are a little too inteligent, we have come a bit too far. Or we are too stupid to realise when to stop... If it was anything like destiny I don't think our was to take over tha planet and all the life on it like we have done. I read just today that some scientists figured out that if we keep on killing animals like we do we will probably destroy about 100 species a day in just a few years...
Have you read Jurassic park? In there two guys talk about what would happen if the dinasours came out; they have no natrual enermies, they would take over tha world and create a disaster. One of then though don't agree to that, he says the planet isn't in danger, nothing we do can come even close to destroy it.
Our plaent have existed for about 4,5 billion years, and in 3,8 billion years it hasbeen life on it. Ever since that new species has been created, while others died out. It's nothing new.
When the first plants began producin oxygen they were almost poisining the whole planet before life learnd to cope with it.
The ultraviolet light that comes down through the ozon layer is poisonus, yes, but it also creates mutations, which is evolution.
yeah i get what you mean.
(then we started going off topic talking about maximum ride and stuff like that...)
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