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The Drake Brothers
A Firestorm Nauralagos

Here is the central for Malistaire and Cyrus discussions. Did you have a recent run-in with a Malistaire or Cyrus hater that you wish to rant about? Have you read any stories recently that involve WELL PORTRAYED Drake brothers? Anything at all? :D

6/17/2013 #1 Report
M BuBuWinter

Just cause no one's posted on this here thingy WHY THE HECK NOT? XD

So me and my best friend in the game and irl are often at odds when it comes to Cyrus. He's a Promethean Conjurer and, being the stereotypical person I am, I thought he'd LIKE Cyrus because he's been his student for all this time. Was I right? When am I ever right?! He doesn't like him a SINGLE BIT! Why? He says he's "a mean teacher lol". A lot of people think that. He's just that mean, bald teacher no one likes but every school has to have one. What these people, these Cy-haters or even the Drake-haters, don't understand is that he's been through A LOT. I mean, Malistaire (his twin) was married to Sylvia he was probably close to her so her death might've most likely almost definitely affected him. Then his brother, whom he was definitely close to, goes insane. Would YOU be a little ball of sunshine if this happened to you? And that's only the in-game definites! There's a lot that could be worked around him because 1) he's not young; what was his childhood like? And 2) did he have family other than the other two Drake's? C'mon! This is fan fiction, none of you should be complaining! And even the ones who DON'T write can always think "well, if this happened to him I'd like him more". No gaming character is gonna be fully fleshed out, get creative! Otherwise you're just a one-sided judgmental person. AND YES KYLE, I'M TALKING TO YOU! (Too bad he doesnt have a fanfic account...he doesnt write :(

The end. XD

8/12/2013 #2 Report
A Firestorm Nauralagos

@BuBu: AGREED. xD

I've read way too many W101 fan fics where Malistaire is the evil, insane, cruel and violent villain, and Cyrus is the big meanie (heck, *I've* even done that to Cyrus O_o) and like you said, BuBu, Malistaire and Cyrus have both been through a lot!!!! I've read a theory that Malistaire has gone mad with grief, and he's only got one goal: GET SYLVIA BACK. Oh, he's going to blow up the whole Spiral in the process? Pshaw. Spiral, Shmiral. That's just collateral damage. At least Sylvia will be back, right?

8/13/2013 #3 Report
M BuBuWinter

Spiral shmiral's right XD Honestly the Drake's are the greatest characters in the game. DOES ANYONE CARE THOUGH? Noooo, they just think they're insane little monkeys who beat on children....T____T They're amazing. People just don't appreciate amazingness it seems :c

8/13/2013 #4 Report
The Dimenssionalist

Since no one has argued against them then here's mine: Cyrus is a bitter old man since he lost everyone he cared about due to events beyond his control. So Cyrus is mean but he has a reason to be mean. Same goes for Malistaire. He wanted the power to bring his wife back, noble but what he did to accomplish that goal is unforgivable. Not to mention Sylvia wasn't enough. He also wanted to use the power of the Dragon Titan to take over the spiral. If that isn't enough, Morganthe uses shadow magic to bring Malistaire back to life, make him invincible, and turn him completely evil. Currently he's floating around in space plotting revenge and swallowing the light of a thousand dying Sun's. So I claim evil on Malistaire, bitter on Cyrus.

2/5/2014 . Edited by Firestorm Nauralagos, 2/5/2014 #5 Report
M BuBuWinter

@Dimenssionalist: You make decent points, but nonetheless they aren't well-grounded and have been made more times than not. (I take my characters very seriously, OC or not, so yeah, here's my argument. :P)

Cyrus Drake: I do agree with you that he is a rather bitter individual because of the loss of his family though you could have had a more grounded argument. Because he and his brother were twins, they had a bond unlike any other, able to tell what the other was feeling mentally and physically, and while they always had this rivalry between them, they were very close nonetheless, so when Malistaire - driven mad with grief because of the loss of his beloved Sylvia - Cyrus felt torn between his duty as the Conjuration professor and his loyalty to his brother. I'd even go so far as to say that at some point in the beginning of it all Cyrus had received a letter from Malistaire, asking him to join his ranks on his quest to bring back Sylvia. (This is how Diego could have gotten the idea that Cyrus was in cahoots with Malistaire because he had intercepted the letter before it had been fully delivered to Cyrus.) It was because he was so torn between duty and family that he became so bitter to his students and quite possibly everyone else. It was a mental tug of war between two things he held dear, and in the end he realized only one would win. He decided that the Malistaire he once knew was long gone, replaced by a dark man concealed in the shadow of grief, and stayed true to his duty. When one side finally won in his mental tug of war, a strong sense of relief overcame him, which was why he became considerably more respectful after Dragonspyre. Even so, he would never forget the agonizing pain of not only losing his brother, but feeling the pain Malistaire felt when Sylvia had passed on. (It's a twin thing.)

So for Cyrus yes, he is bitter, but it wasn't JUST because of loss of family. It was the loss of family and the strain of choosing between his brother and his moral duty as a person and a professor of magic.

Malistaire Drake: With Malistaire, I disagree with nearly everything you stated. Due to personal experience I know just how traumatizing it is to lose someone who is very close and very loved, and I also know that not everyone handles grief the same way. In Malistaire's case, the loss of Sylvia drove him stark-raving mad. The thing that he held most precious to him was gone, and the grief tore his heart apart. His mind became clouded with different emotions and memories, from defiance to outrage to heart-breaking sadness, and seeing his beloved's face over and over appear in his mind's eyes and hearing her voice echo in his ears was unbearable. Then a thought came to mind... he was a Necromancer. His magic allowed him to bring back beings of the dead. But with his limited knowledge it was an incomplete animation. (Here is where my own personal theory comes in, which you're welcome to perceive in any way you want) He began to study ancient scrolls and books that were thought to have been lost or destroyed in the wastes of time. Some were even forbidden. But in his desperation he was willing to do anything to bring his wife back. He studied scroll after scroll, learning things that no other Necromancer had known. However, his valiant attempts at finding a spell that would fully bring back Sylvia - body, mind, and soul - were in vain. As he had thought, Necromancy was simply an animator, not a reviver. There was only one who was ever powerful enough to fully revive someone from the dead, and that was the Dragon Titan. His mind darkened by his never-ending grief, his now-solitary life, and his dabbling in the darkest part of Necromancy made him lose his sanity and all sense of right and wrong, and as a result he set out to awaken the great beast in hopes that he could control him to bring back Sylvia. To his shattered mind and broken heart, the Spiral was just an obstacle in the way.

So no, Malistaire is not evil in the simplest terms, just a broken man driven mad with grief. While his acts most certainly weren't sane and very dangerous, in a true and kind-heated wizard, pity and sympathy must be felt for the man who lost everything. His goal for the Dragon Titan was not to take over the Spiral, but to bring back Sylvia. That was his main goal throughout the entire ordeal, and perhaps if he'd consulted in someone (his brother for example) and looked for comfort in those close to him, he would have been kept sane and this act would have never been done. There's the phrase "it's not the gun that kills, but the person shooting the gun". Metaphorically, Malistaire was the gun in the hands of madness and despair. As a person he was never "evil", but grief and pain most certainly is.

As for Morganthe, that has nearly nothing to do with Malistaire in the slightest. She animated him again into a pure evil entirely consumed by dark emotions. I never got that far in-game, but I've always been under the impression he was revived solely for Morganthe's own evil deeds, NOT his own, so he himself is NOT evil.

Those are my full thoughts on Malistaire and Cyrus. Have other thoughts, go ahead and tell me. I'll gladly argue against them or be inclined to agree. Who knows? G'bye for now. xP

Firestorm!edit: *traumatizing :P

2/5/2014 . Edited by Firestorm Nauralagos, 2/5/2014 #6 Report
The Dimenssionalist

@BuBuWinter: Alright now that I'm back at my computer and free of that annoying kindle, I can unleash my full power!

Cyrus Drake: interesting points. In truth I never saw him that way, being torn between his love for his brother and his duty as a professor, which would why he seems to hate being a professor. I actually had an unused O.C idea about Malistaire's daughter in the exact same scenario where she had to choose between being with her father and seeing her mother again. Remember that because I'm going to bring it up again later. As for the letter theory, that's pretty brilliant as it would explain Diego's suspicions.

Malistaire: This is where the debate goes into the never ending conflict of right and wrong.

Yes, losing a loved one this way is a horrible thing to experience, but I still find that Malistaire is willingness to kill or destroy anything in his way as an unforgivable act. Let's look at some of his deeds shall we:

Wizard city: raised an army of the undead to destroy the three streets and Olde town and stop anyone from chasing after him.

Employed Rattlebones to corrupt the fairies.

Blasted the death school to Night Side. Endangered Dworygn (eh, who cares).

Attempted to assassinate Ambrose.

Attempted to assassinate Ambrose and a young wizard.

Stole Bartleby's eye (why?).

According to Bartleby, he came by every night to torment him.

Employed a wraith to corrupt the fire elves.

Abandoned his brother, Ambrose, the teachers, his students and his other friends.

Krokotopia: I don't remember this world.

Marleybone: Released several dangerous criminals.

Stole the Krokonomicon.

Raised an undead army.

Jaywalked.

Mooshu: Attacked His Imperial Majesty.

Stole the key to Dragonspyre.

Dragonspyre: Robbed vaults

raised yet another undead army.

Attempted to summon a Dragon Titan to force it to bring back his wife then use it's power to rule the world.

He'd do worse if not for the fact that it's a family game. If not bound by a Rated Everyone 10 symbol, who knows who he would've killed. At the very least he would have severely wounded Ambrose and Cyrus. I get that his wife died and he wanted to bring her back. Who wouldn't? But that still isn't an excuse for his actions. Plus bringing someone back isn't something that should be allowed to happen. No matter how unfair their death, death is the end. Imagine if people had the ability to cheat death. It'd be terrible. Nothing would change, people would always be there, it'd be overcrowded, wars would never end. People should not be allowed back no matter how they died.

Malistaire wouldn't stop there either. Towards the end of Dragonspyre he becomes completely power mad. He fully believes that he is the master of death who can do anything, even control a Titan. After he brought back Sylvia he wouldn't just stop there. He'd build a castle for himself and try to rule the Spiral because in his mind he's the master of death that can do anything. That is why I believe him to be evil. He has a better reason to be evil than most villains and it's even hard to think that he is evil, but he is. Not just because of his power madness but because of his willingness to harm others to get what he wants.

My final point is what I believe to be the most convincing Malistaire, despite all he's been through, despite all the pain he's faced from losing a loved one due to events beyond his control, is still willing to inflict the same kind of pain upon others. Even if he did try to recruit his brother, Cyrus said no and tried to reason with Malistaire not to try his insane stunt of summoning the Dragon Titan to revive his wife. And Malistaire's response was to abandon his brother and leave Cyrus to feel the same pain of losing a loved one and not being able to stop it twice. Cyrus had it worst because now he had to stop Malistaire. And Malistaire did the same thing to Ambrose, Diego, Sylvia's friend (who?), the professors, his students, so many people who cared for him and Malistaire left them to bring back Sylvia. Making all of them feel the same pain Malistaire felt when he lost Sylvia. But it doesn't even end there. Through his actions Malistair has caused so many others to feel grieve and despair. There's the guard in Fire Cat Alley who almost lost his best friend Feebo because of Malistaire. Ceren Nightchant and Lady Oriel both cared for the fairies of Unicorn Way and almost lost them simply because Malistaire needed a distraction. Malistaire was willing to kill Ambrose at least twice because he saw Ambrose as a threat to his plans. How to you think the people of Wizard City would feel if they lost their beloved leader? If your wizard hadn't saved him, Mooshu would've lost their much respected Emperor. Malistaire lost his wife and went through the five stages of grief like anyone would. Cyrus went through it. Ambrose went through it. Everyone in the spiral who loved Sylvia (and that's a lot of people) went through it. But they all reached the final stage: acceptance. Knowing that Sylvia was gone and moving on with their lives because Sylvia would've wanted it that way. But Malistaire was trapped in depression. Which later became denial and bargaining. And because of that he sent his brother through those stages again only this time Cyrus couldn't get past anger until the end of game's first arc. I feel as if your wizard and Ambrose know this. They know that they have to get Malistaire to accept Sylvia's death even if they have to kill him in the process. My final two examples: Malistaire DID revive Sylvia in the form of a wraith. She was trapped in a horrible state of anger and sadness all because of Malistaire's refusal to let go. In order to free her you have to defeat her in combat which was probably sad on your wizard. Finally, Sylvia's closest friend who hangs out at Olde town. I feel as if she's a great example because of the side quest she gives you. She's already accepted Sylvia's death and she talks to you about all the good times they've had. She then asks you to retrieve the scrapbook they made together when they were kids. The enemy who has the scrapbook is a worn out looking skeleton who refuses to give the scrapbook out of hatred he has for Malistaire and Sylvia. He's a person who wasted his whole life trying to make them unhappy and his inability to let things go caused his very skeleton to remain and guard the book. Your wizard defeats him and returns the woman her scrapbook, who turns through it remembering all the fun she and Sylvia had. But she's not grieving. She isn't sad that Sylvia's gone, she's happy because she met Sylvia and had all those good times despite how suddenly they seemed to end. In my opinion, she's Malistaire's counterpart. She even helps make you special gear so that you can defeat Malistaire, knowing full well that if his plan works Sylvia will come back.

That's it for my argument. My final words will be: Since Malistaire was the one who felt the most pain of losing someone you care about, shouldn't he be the one to try and stop others from feeling the same? How can someone who's felt that level of misery possibly think that it's okay to make others feel the same so long as he gets to be the one to bring his lost one back?

2/6/2014 . Edited by Firestorm Nauralagos, 2/6/2014 #7 Report
A Firestorm Nauralagos

@Dimenssionalist: Although I'm definitely more of a Malistaire advocate (as you can tell from The Destiny of Fire's Song xD) I can see where you're coming from in terms of Malistaire's action. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" (Lord Acton) definitely applies here; you're right that his later actions were inexcusable, but I think his original intentions, at least, were good. I'll throw in a little of my own idea just to make things even more interesting/confusing (whichever you prefer :P) In one of the last chapters of DoFS, I mention the Soul Servants that are guarding Malistaire and making his magical bubble thing. I kind of went with the idea that, in order to summon them, Malistaire had to give up memories of his past- possibly including memories of Sylvia, and definitely including Alex (adopted daughter.) Even though my idea is just a random thing I threw into my fan fiction and not actually canon, I'd guess that summoning all of those Undead creatures and causing so much death and destruction to the worlds at least did SOMETHING to his head. That probably clouded his judgement and made him forget everything but his initial goal- heck, the guy probably doesn't even remember WHY he wants Sylvia back; he's just got this thought nagging him every waking hour- "Must bring back Sylvia." It's like a necessary function of life for him; eat, breathe, sleep, get her back. :3

Anddddddd .... I have successfully gone off on a gigantic, time wasting tangent. Sweet. (Oh, crap- tangents ... that reminds me that I have math homework. *debates* Nah. Sleep is more fun.)

Lastly, I have two more comments for you, Dimenssionalist (do you, by any chance, have a nickname? Dimenssionalist is a little long to type out O_o That wasn't one of my two more comments, by the way x3)

Le actual comment 1: "Malistaire" has an "e" on the end :P (Sorry; that was bugging me. Le Spelling Nazi part of me is present and accounted for :P)

Le actual comment 2: Did you- you just actually- you insulted Dworgyn!!!!!!!!??????? *Makes a face* Dude, that guy is FABULOUS. xD xD xD He's completely insane, which makes him even more awesome- go look up some of the dialogue from high level Death spell/pet quests. I crack up every time the guy says anything :P

LE END.

2/6/2014 #8 Report
M BuBuWinter

@Dimensionalist: 'Scuse any typos. Le IPAD is a pain.

Firestorm already said her part, which I mostly agree with, but being the argumentative person I am, I have more to say...

While you bring up some very valid points, I feel the need to address that Malistaire was made a stereotypical power-hungry evil dude purely because the game was aimed for a younger audience, meaning his character had to be made simple enough to say hey, this guy is EVIL. I am by no means arguing he isn't evil, but there's so much more to him I feel should be expanded upon. If the game wherefore more mature players, odds are he would be a lot more complicated and his story would go much more in-depth. Also, there wouldn't be all the overpowered crap Kingsisle decided to throw in (all of the evil deeds you mentioned he did in all the worlds). In a realistic setting, in which I feel all writings should try to do unless it were a parody of sorts, Malistaire would not have the power to do all the things he did without a bit of help from someone - or something - else. Something like what Firestorm used in DoFS, and like a theory I'm playing around with I'm too lazy to type on the IPAD. If you want to know it, lemme know and I'll message or whatevs when I'm on the computer. xD

Also, the aspect of grief. Again I bring up no one handles it the same. You say you believe he should have had a more selfless view after Sylvia's passing in that he shouldn't want to inflict that kind of pain on anyone else, and because he didn't he's evil. The only people who are capable of doing that is of they truly are good-hearted and selfless even if they never felt the pain of losing someone. Malistaire Drake most certainly isn't that kind of person. He's strict, calculating, calm, and while he was a good person before Sylvia's demise, he wasn't selfless. Malistaire is sort of how one of my friends was. Little over a year ago our friend Jarod had passed away. I was completely broken down to say the least. I simply cried and grieved. How she handled it, however, was different. She said to me once that this happened to everyone every day, and personally I feel Malistaire could've felt the same after Sylvia's passing. People die every day, so he didn't feel pity or remorse to those he hurt; everyone went through it at some point. I also feel your stereotyping villains and heroes in this aspect. Just because he didn't care much for others in his time of mourning doesn't make him evil. Cruel maybe, but not evil, and yes, there is a difference.

And finally, I have a quote from a one shot I'm currently working on that I feel describes the relationship between Malistaire and Sylvia perfectly:

"As an odd metaphor of Ambrose's put it, Sylvia was the rich soil and warming sunlight needed for Malistaire to grow into a strong, towering tree, so when she passed on the tree didn't simply wither away, it was completely uprooted and torn from the stable ground beneath it, caught in raging tornado of havoc and despair."

I'm sorry, I was just really proud of that quote. xP

To Sum Everything Up: My intention was never to disprove the fact Malistaire WASNT evil - he clearly is - but rather to prove there is so much more to him than you and a lot of other people seem to think. It's a fanfiction writer's job to expand upon the universe in which the original takes place, making things more realistic and more interesting than it simply being a game we play. This includes the expansion of characters that aren't seen as fully developed or not developed well enough. This is why I'm such an advocate of Malistaire's. He's a great character, but there's also a lot of wasted potential on him simply because he's a kids-game villain.

2/6/2014 . Edited by Firestorm Nauralagos, 2/8/2014 #9 Report
Tails-is-pwnage

Not sure if anyone's going to read this, but I absolutely love this thread. Everyone's making such great and sophisticated points about the two Drake brothers, especially Malistaire.

For me, Malistaire was certainly a villain I could sympathize with towards the end. I didn't really want to fight him. I wanted Sylvia's ghost to talk some sense into him and somehow make everything all better so everyone'd go "Yay, happy ending!", but, ultimately, that was a foolish burst of optimism. Malistaire, in my opinion, is one of the hardest bosses to fight if you've actually paid attention to the plot. Although he did quite a few things that nobody should ever do, risked so many lives, ended so many more... I had this feeling of dread throughout the Great Spyre and Crown of Fire. This feeling that what I was doing wasn't necessarily the best way to go about ending this chaos.

Malistaire, ultimately, is sympathetic because of his prime motivation, the loss of his loved one. At the end of the day, the loss of the thing most precious to you is something that you can't simply say you would 'get over' and never do anything like Malistaire. Have you ever told someone 'I would give the world to you' and meant it? Some people actually do mean it. If their loved one was lost, and the only way to bring them back was to risk the world, they'd take that chance. Anyone who's felt that way may take that chance. And that's the chance Malistaire took.

I don't think Malistaire was going to awaken the Dragon Titan (See: Fire Titan? Heavily hinted towards being the Fire Titan, I believe) with Spiral-domination in mind. I think he was planning to awaken it with only reviving Sylvia in mind. Perhaps he had some doubts... Perhaps he thought on what he had done and realized that what he was doing wasn't right; but I think he pressed on anyway, not for himself, not for some dumb plan to rule everything but, instead, to bring back Sylvia. He may have even hoped to put the Fire Titan back to sleep afterwards somehow.

Talking with Grace (Sylvia's old friend, I believe) was the first hint as I played through the game that something was amiss about this 'stereotypical evil character', and as the plot went on, I really did start to feel this great sympathy for Malistaire, whether he did tons of horrible stuff or not. I wanted another way out. A way to make this character sane again rather than fight and, well, as hinted, kill him.

A family-friendly game made me feel like a murderer. :P Well played, Wizard101. Well played.

3/21/2015 #10 Report
J.R. Marsden

I ONLY SAW THIS NOW I'M SORRY TAILS-IS-PWNAGE.

But yes, I agree completely. I felt terrible fighting Malistaire, and I felt so bad for Cyrus, too. I mean, they were TWINS. Imagine how hard it was for him to lead the expedition to Dragonspyre and guide the Hero to his likely only family's death. Like, damn.

And bravo to that last line. Dagnabit, Kingsisle, making us all future murderers.

EDIT: And yes, this is BuBu. I forgot I was on my friend's account, because apparently JR lacks the ability to log out on my electronics.

5/10/2015 . Edited 5/10/2015 #11 Report
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