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Writing: Brainstorm / Idea Bounce
XXLXXL-009

Can someone suggest me an item which can symbolize love, romance, erotica, desire, etc.?

For example, a dagger can symbolize hatred, anger, revenge, conspiracy, and so on.

F. Scott Fitzgerald used the sound of a tuning fork to symbolize love. I could use it but there's no way I can beat what he wrote and I can't seem to come up with a good item to symbolize love.

Any ideas? (Just not flowers and chocolates please)

EDIT: How does a wind chime sound?

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,321 Report
M LMRaven

An apple has often been used to symbolize temptation and desire, and a heart is a universal symbol of love. But, in regards to symbolism, you can really choose anything, even if it's not generic or universal. This may be especially true if a character is doing the symbolizing. What means something to them personally as a symbolic representation of a concept, emotion, etc.?

5/30/2020 #4,322 Report
Igenlode Wordsmith

Can someone suggest me an item which can symbolize love, romance, erotica, desire, etc.?

It depends very much on the context and how the item is used in the text. The mere existence of a dagger doesn't 'symbolize conspiracy' (particularly not if we're talking about a mediaeval peasant cutting off a bit of cheese for his lunch!)

As LMRaven says, what is symbolic of a *specific* romance to a *specific* character is going to be highly personal.

EDIT: How does a wind chime sound?

It sounds like a lot of random notes being played on small and rather tuneless bells.

5/30/2020 #4,323 Report
XXLXXL-009

An apple has often been used to symbolize temptation and desire, and a heart is a universal symbol of love. But, in regards to symbolism, you can really choose anything, even if it's not generic or universal. This may be especially true if a character is doing the symbolizing. What means something to them personally as a symbolic representation of a concept, emotion, etc.?

Heart's already there. And for what I need this symbolizing item, I need something universal. An apple? Perhaps that could work, if I can come up with a good description involving an apple. Thanks.

EDIT:

It depends very much on the context and how the item is used in the text. The mere existence of a dagger doesn't 'symbolize conspiracy' (particularly not if we're talking about a mediaeval peasant cutting off a bit of cheese for his lunch!)

No, of course, the mere presence of a dagger doesn't symbolize conspiracy. I was going by a description from my notes where a dagger is used to symbolize conspiracy:

Mr Humbert confesses to a certain titillation of his vanity, to some faint tenderness, even to the pattern of remorse, daintily running along the steel of his conspiratorial dagger.

I wanted to use an item in that way.

This is what I came up with:

In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved, somehow stirred a very primitive desire within Ash. Subtle and disturbingly enticing. And as she came closer and closer, his heart romped, like a tuning fork struck upon a star, and before he knew... he became ensnared.

And I want to change that bolded part with something better. I thought of: He sat there listening to the tintinnabulations of the wind chimes in his heart.

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,324 Report
CondorRadcliff

In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved, somehow stirred a very primitive desire within Ash. Subtle and disturbingly enticing. And as she came closer and closer, his heart romped, like a tuning fork struck upon a star, and before he knew... he became ensnared.

And I want to change that bolded part with something better. I thought of: He sat there listening to the tintinnabulations of the wind chimes in his heart.

The italicized part isn't bad, but it complicates the universal/simple.

The heart's usually represented as being organically percussive, not mineral - and a tuning fork or chime is kinda high for that anyway. Something like, his heart went from keeping kick-drum beat to a tom drum solo before he knew it... and he became ensnared. (Which then works as a pun on a snare drum. *rimshot*)

5/30/2020 #4,325 Report
XXLXXL-009

The heart's usually represented as being organicallypercussive, not mineral - and a tuning fork or chime is kinda high for that anyway.

Haven't thought of that. Makes sense. Thanks for the perspective.

Something like, his heart went from keeping kick-drum beat to a tom drum solo before he knew it... and he became ensnared.(Which then works as a pun on a snare drum. *rimshot*)

I like it but kick-drum beat and tom drum solo sound too technical (?) The character, Ash, wouldn't know the difference. I was thinking something like: his heart went from keeping a steady drumbeat to atonal cacophony.

Sounds better?

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,326 Report
M LMRaven

And I want to change that bolded part with something better. I thought of: He sat there listening to the tintinnabulationsof the wind chimes in his heart.

If he was focused on the girl, why would he be sitting there listening to what ever sound his heart was making? Meaning, it doesn't exactly ring true, if you pardon the pun. Something to think about, a lot of times that initial feeling over desire and want feels more like a sucker punch to the gut or butterflies dancing in pit of one's stomach as well. Sure, the heart beat may get involved too but that maybe more of a thunderous beat against his ribcage, or a staccato rhythm than it would a vibrato chime - something he would more feel than hear. And I'm very "iffy" on the use of the word tintinnabulations. To me, it smells more than a bit like " this was pulled from a thesaurus". It makes the sentence unnecessarily convoluted which in turn may dilute the impact you're going for if a) looks oddly placed and forced in there and/or b) the reader has to read over the word a few times. Is that really a word your character would use in that situation? It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

If you're going for something more poetic, you can still do so without going overboard with it. Simplicity is usually the better choice if you're striving for emotional impact. It's usually when we're choosing form over function that readers start to pay more attention to how something was written rather than the story and what was written.

Edit:

Sorry, I didn't see the revision.

The character, Ash, wouldn't know the difference. I was thinking something like:his heart went from keeping a steady drumbeat to atonal cacophony.

Atonal and cacophony are pretty much synonymous so using them together is redundant. You might try his heart went from its normal steady and rhythmic pattern to a cacophonous beat, thundering against his ribcage.

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,327 Report
XXLXXL-009

If he was focused on the girl, why would he be sitting there listening to what ever sound his heart was making? Meaning, it doesn't exactly ring true, if you pardon the pun. Something to think about, a lot of times that initial feeling over desire and want feels more like a sucker punch to the gut or butterflies dancing in pit of one's stomach as well. Sure, the heart beat may get involved too but that maybe more of a thunderous beat against his ribcage, or a staccato rhythm than it would a vibrato chime - something he would more feel than hear.

Honestly, it was just an idea which I pulled straight out of The Great Gatsby (I almost remember many passages byheart). Initially, I did think of using butterflies dancing in the stomach, but that sounded like a cliche, and I'm actively working towards not using cliche phrases.

And I'm very "iffy" on the use of the word tintinnabulations.To me, itsmells more than a bit like" this was pulled from a thesaurus". It makes the sentence unnecessarily convoluted which in turn may dilute the impact you're going for if a) looks oddly placed and forced in there and/or b) the reader has to read over the word a few times. Is that really a word your character would use in that situation? It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

I'll admit that I used the word deliberately here. :P Tintinnabulations is the word for the sound a wind chime makes and I liked that word so much that I've been dying to use it since the first time I've encountered it. In the story--if I'm ever using a wind chime--I'd change it to t.inkle (T.inkle is censored?), but here, I thought, why not?

The character, Ash, wouldn't know the difference. I was thinking something like:his heart went from keeping a steady drumbeat to atonal cacophony.

Atonal and cacophony are pretty much synonymous so using them together is redundant. You might try his heart went from its normal steady and rhythmic pattern to a cacophonous beat, thundering against his ribcage.

I like your suggestion. I think I'll go for it. Thanks.

One thing: Wouldn't atonal cacophony make sense since atonal is an adjective and cacophony is a noun? (I did find the use of this phrase on google books.)

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,328 Report
M LMRaven

One thing: Wouldn't atonal cacophony make sense since atonal is an adjective and cacophony is a noun?

A cacophony by its very nature is atonal. Atonal and cacophonous are the synonyms.

5/30/2020 #4,329 Report
XXLXXL-009

A cacophony by its very nature is atonal. Atonal and cacophonous are the synonyms.

Can't argue that. I did change it though.

I know this isn't a critique thread, but... is this better?

In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved, somehow evoked a very primitive desire within Ash's nerves. Subtle and disturbingly enticing. And as she came closer and closer, his heart jumped from a steady rhythm to a cacophonous beat, thundering against his ribcage; and before he knew… he became ensnared.

5/30/2020 . Edited 5/30/2020 #4,330 Report
CondorRadcliff

Looks good, go with that.

5/30/2020 #4,331 Report
XXLXXL-009

Looks good, go with that.

Read it again on a different screen (mobile), and it's still no good. The nerves gotta go, and there something still missing. Something I can't wrap my head around. Contrast is too weak, maybe? I don't know. Well, I leave this for now and edit the rest. Can get back to it later.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

5/31/2020 #4,332 Report
Flussungeheuer

I'm not a music expert, but I'm not sure atonal and cacophony are the same. There's atonal music by composers like Arnold Schoenberg. When I hear the word "cacophony" it makes me think of a loud area in the city - like a building site next to a playing ground full of children with loud traffic going by.

6/1/2020 #4,333 Report
M LMRaven

I'm not a music expert, but I'm not sure atonal and cacophony are the same.

They aren't "the same", but atonal and cacophony are similar enough where it lends itself to be redundant in the phrasing, I believe. Something which is a cacophonous sound and something which is atonal are both discordant. The two together act as a redundancy, not unlike hidden secret, armed gunmen, small speck, surrounded on all sides, frozen ice, repeatedly redundant, etc.

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,334 Report
SomethingAncient

In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved, somehow evoked a very primitive desire within Ash's nerves. Subtle and disturbingly enticing. And as she came closer and closer, his heart jumped from a steady rhythm to a cacophonous beat, thundering against his ribcage; and before he knew… he became ensnared.

To start with, I can see that the phrasing and punctuation is all meant to set the pace of the scene to closer match what Ash feels. It also looks like there's supposed to be fluidity to match the motion of the scene. I'm a fan of this, but I can also see it has produced some challenges. Instead of "The night was intoxicating and ash noticed a girl who moved in ways that evoked a feeling," we get "The night was intoxicating, a girl moved in ways, it evoked a feeling in Ash's nerves." It's very poetic. That said, 'nerves' feels out of place because, in this placement, the sentence is about Ash's nerves, and not Ash.

The next sentence is commentary on the first, but from Ash's standpoint (and not his nerve's standpoint), so there's a bit of a dissonance there; so much so that it could be mistaken as what the reader is supposed to feel.

The last sentence is good, but the second clause could be seen as filler the way it's presented, and the final clause, by cutting out the word 'it', feels a bit empty which takes away from the impact (in my opinion). This, along with your other post, led me to think you wanted more impact in general, as well. Oh, and the use of a semi-colon can also let you get rid of the word 'and'.

Now, to articulate this, I had to re-write the paragraph for myself to figure it out, so I feel it would be a disservice not to show you. Keep in mind, this is one example of many possibilities, and everything here is my opinion.

"In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved... it evoked a primal desire within Ash, moving through his veins and electrifying every nerve. It was subtle and disturbing, yet enticing. As she came closer, his heart jumped from a steady rhythm to a thunderous cacophony, storming against his rib cage in a wild fury. Before he knew it, he was ensnared."

In the first sentence, I moved the focus of the main clause back to Ash, and used his nerves to serve the feeling, instead of being served by the feeling.

I moved the ellipse up to the first sentence because I saw what effect you wanted to create, but wasn't sure it fit right at the end. I hope it was a good example of a reasonable compromise.

I made the second sentence more clear in its contrast.

I changed the third sentence to reinforce the drama, and separated the last part into a fourth sentence to give it more appropriate spacing (again, in my opinion). I might even argue for it to be given its own paragraph.

"...wild fury.

Before he knew it, he was ensnared."

This isn't perfect, but I think it might show you what I meant in my breakdown. As I said, this is just an example, it's not the only way to do it, and you don't have to follow any of what I said if you don't like it.

Edit: I've edited the heck out of this post.

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,335 Report
XXLXXL-009

I can also see it has produced some challenges. Instead of "The night was intoxicating and ash noticed a girl who moved in ways that evoked a feeling," we get "The night was intoxicating, a girl moved in ways, it evoked a feeling in Ash's nerves."

I see your point there, and on hindsight, it makes sense and ellipses could do a better job here. Thanks for noticing.

It's very poetic.

It really feels good to hear someone say it's poetic. It's quite a stride for me: jumping from the dreaded purple prose to potential poetic prose. Thanks a bunch.

"In the intoxicating flavour of the night, the way she looked and the way she moved... it evoked a primal desire within Ash, moving through his veins and electrifying every nerve. It was subtle and disturbing, yet enticing. As she came closer, his heart jumped from a steady rhythm to a thunderous cacophony, drumming against his rib cage in a wild fury; before he knew it, he was ensnared."

I like what you did here, but I was thinking, instead of moving through his veins and electrifying every nerve, maybe spreading a languorous warmth in his heart would do better. Lesser words and 'electrifying nerves' sounds a bit too cliche. I've read it too many times now.

Still, the last part needs some work, I feel. Talking about how a heart beats at such situations is done too many times. I was thinking about metaphorizing Ash's heart to a harp and talking about the tightening of the strings. It's still a raw idea coursing in my head. Gotta see what I can do with it.

Thanks for your input. I'm going to change the placement of ellipses and use the word it in the last part, and maybe was ensnared works better too. :-)

EDIT:

I changed the third sentence to reinforce the drama, and separated the last part into a fourth sentence to give it more appropriate spacing (again, in my opinion). I might even argue for it to be given its own paragraph.

I think I'll take your advice here. I'll give the last sentence its own paragraph. Thanks.

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,336 Report
Invincible Shinji

I am considering trying to continue SulliMike's Evangelion Naruto Over, Orphaned Shinobi, or trying to do pseudo rewrite of it like I did for Moving On with Eva Muyo. Im trying to find inspiration and ideas for a direction to go with it. Here are some of the ideas that have cone to mind thus far. Feedback, suggestions, constructive Criticism, and the likes are greatly appreciated. Thanks :D **I am considering making him have a unique bloodline or be a pseudo jinchiruki like Sora. Mostly inspired by his berserker mode eyes from Rebuild. **Would minor or potential long term future sight be overpowered for a kekigenkai in Naruto; or something like Action Man's abilities? ** Shōgan Getsuyagan Ryokuryūgan Ketsuryūgan Some possible kekkigenkai I am considering giving Shinji when I do find the inspiration to continue Orphaned Shinobi. Or some original Dojutsu/ability. Im still trying to come up with ideas. **Naruto's Clan, the Uzumakis had survivors spread throughout the world. Would it be too "typical" or "lazy" to have Yui be a descendant of the clan or gone into hiding and changing her name before meeting Gendo. And maybe that was what lead to the massacre at their village?

6/1/2020 #4,337 Report
XXLXXL-009

I am considering trying to continue SulliMike's Evangelion Naruto Over, Orphaned Shinobi, or trying to do pseudo rewrite of it like I did for Moving On with Eva Muyo. Im trying to find inspiration and ideas for a direction to go with it. Here are some of the ideas that have cone to mind thus far. Feedback, suggestions, constructive Criticism, and the likes are greatly appreciated. Thanks :D **I am considering making him have a unique bloodline or be a pseudo jinchiruki like Sora. Mostly inspired by his berserker mode eyes from Rebuild. **Would minor or potential long term future sight be overpowered for a kekigenkai in Naruto; or something like Action Man's abilities? ** Shōgan Getsuyagan Ryokuryūgan Ketsuryūgan Some possible kekkigenkai I am considering giving Shinji when I do find the inspiration to continue Orphaned Shinobi. Or some original Dojutsu/ability. Im still trying to come up with ideas. **Naruto's Clan, the Uzumakis had survivors spread throughout the world. Would it be too "typical" or "lazy" to have Yui be a descendant of the clan or gone into hiding and changing her name before meeting Gendo. And maybe that was what lead to the massacre at their village?

I think it'd be easier for more people to help you if you could give your ideas in a way anyone can follow. From what I see, one should be quite familiar with Naruto to even follow your ideas. Too many Japanese terms.

Having said that, you can make any character of a story overpowered if you want to, given that there is a plausible justification for doing so. Secondly, the conflicts the character will face should also be of that level. I'd prefer stronger conflicts, though.

With something like future sight, maybe you could limit how long into the future Naruto can see? (assuming that's what you mean by future sight). There is a movie called, Next. Try that. Nicholas Cage can see three seconds into the future. Maybe you could get some idea from it.

I'm reminded of something I read a while back on the internet. Here it is:

John: "Max, how do you kill a vampire?"

Max: "Holy water, stake through the heart, etc."

John: "No. You kill a vampire however the f*** you want, because vampires aren't real."

The moral of this story is that everything is in the execution. Every time you find yourself asking "is it okay if I...?", "Could I get away with...?" The answer is always always always: YES, if you can execute it well.

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,338 Report
Invincible Shinji

Okay. If i may ask a potentially dumb question, how should I present my ideas I guess? What would be the most efficient, concise, and TOU compliant means of explaining things so people can follow me and know what im talking about? Should I put them in a blurb, post a link to a wiki page/site, or make a few additional smaller replies/post?

6/1/2020 #4,339 Report
XXLXXL-009

Okay. If i may ask a potentially dumb question, how should I present my ideas I guess? What would be the most efficient, concise, and TOU compliant means of explaining things so people can follow me and know what im talking about? Should I put them in a blurb, post a link to a wiki page/site, or make a few additional smaller replies/post?

You could easily say something like this:

I'm planning to write a Naruto fan-fiction, a pseudo rewrite of [insert whatever it is]. Here is are the ideas I came up with:

1. The protagonist, Naruto having a unique bloodline or a pseudo jinchiruki (humans with tailed beasts sealed within them).

2. I have a few abilities in mind: [Explain what the abilities are how they work, perhaps.]

Naruto's Clan, the Uzumakis had survivors spread throughout the world. Would it be too "typical" or "lazy" to have Yui (the female protagonist or whoever you plan her to make) be a descendant of the clan or gone into hiding and changing her name before meeting Gendo (the clan leader or whoever he is)?

If you expect people to google and understand every term and character you name, it's hard to get help, don't you think? I'm sure someone from the Naruto fandom will come and assist you, but the more people involve, the more the ideas will clash, and the more and better the ideas can get, right?

6/1/2020 #4,340 Report
Asj Johnson

When I ask about stuff on here, I think of general terms that most people would recognize. Like, when talking about Danny Phantom, I avoid terms like 'ghost' and 'thermos'. Instead, I could mention that a character has superpowers, or a character is a type of soldier, or that a character is locked in a containment unit or prison. If I were to talk about Fullmetal Alchemist, I might mention that the characters use science (or magic - whichever makes more sense for what I'm asking about) to do things.

If you were explaining the series to a friend who'd never heard of it before, how would you explain it?

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,341 Report
Igenlode Wordsmith

I like what you did here, but I was thinking, instead of moving through his veins and electrifying every nerve, maybe spreading a languorous warmth in his heart would do better. Lesser words and 'electrifying nerves' sounds a bit too cliche. I've read it too many times now.

Note that you can't have 'languorous warmth' (which implies relaxation) *and* intoxication, excitement, drumming heartbeat, etc. They're two very different moods/reactions.

From what you've said, I think Ash being nervous would be more likely than Ash feeling warm and comfortable.

6/1/2020 #4,342 Report
XXLXXL-009

I like what you did here, but I was thinking, instead of moving through his veins and electrifying every nerve, maybe spreading a languorous warmth in his heart would do better. Lesser words and 'electrifying nerves' sounds a bit too cliche. I've read it too many times now.

Note that you can't have 'languorous warmth' (which implies relaxation) *and* intoxication, excitement, drumming heartbeat, etc. They're two very different moods/reactions.

From what you've said, I think Ash being nervous would be more likely than Ash feeling warm and comfortable.

Yeah, I kinda realised it's not fitting the mood, even after removing the heart-thumping and stuff. *sweatdrop* Gotta come up with something better.

EDIT: How does the metaphor, ropes tightening around heart sound?

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,343 Report
CondorRadcliff

Sounds like asphyxiation. That's, eh, a no-no right now in the US.

6/1/2020 #4,344 Report
XXLXXL-009

Sounds like asphyxiation. That's, eh, a no-no right now in the US.

You actually cracked me up there.

Creative writing is so hard. SMH.

6/1/2020 #4,345 Report
Invincible Shinji

Heres a link to pertinent plot and character info I picked up off of Wikis and the original story i was inspired by:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HKi-7a0Cy5awE-Ce5ih8MBegH4n3l3HYZ85TLPD6WJ8/edit?usp=sharing

I feel this jeeds to be cindesend chopped up slightly as well though. Would putting the final version in a reply along with the said ideas and suggestions mentioned previously be sufficient in helping folks get the idea for the story and getting ideas?

6/1/2020 #4,346 Report
Wildebunny the Eternal

If you're asking for generic guidance, that's way too long. Please consider using a beta.

6/1/2020 #4,347 Report
XXLXXL-009

I feel this jeeds to be cindesend chopped up slightly as well though. Would putting the final version in a reply along with the said ideas and suggestions mentioned previously be sufficient in helping folks get the idea for the story and getting ideas?

The whole doc summarized the plot of the (original story?), I think? It's like the backstory of Naruto and I'm assuming that you want to continue after Naruto becomes the Seventh Hokage. So, my question is where are you stuck in your outline?

6/1/2020 #4,348 Report
Invincible Shinji

Its actually a continuation of Orphaned Shinobi by Sullimike23 that he's abandoned some time ago. I was meaning to pick up where he left off or revamp it somewhat like I started to do with Moving On with Eva Muyo. So it would be back on sometime around the chunin on exams and potentially go on through the rest of the anime.

6/1/2020 . Edited 6/1/2020 #4,349 Report
XXLXXL-009

Its actually a continuation of Orphaned Shinobi by Sullimike23 that he's abandoned some time ago. I was meaning to pick up where he left off or revamp it somewhat like I started to do with Moving On with Eva Muyo. So it would be back on sometime around the chin on exams and potentially go on through the crest of the anime.

That still doesn't answer the question: where are you stuck?

Either way, if you're planning to continue someone else's story--with that writer's permission as you said in your google doc--didn't you ask for the notes and outlines that writer made? If you didn't, I seriously suggest you do. You might get a better idea of steering the story.

6/1/2020 #4,350 Report
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